does “start over” mean using powered frogs using Tortoise SPDT contacts or frog juicers or does it suggest that the track plan in general needs to be redone?
We don’t really know yet what “start over” means because we don’t have enough info from the OP.
It could just mean take up the track and add roadbed to get it level. His locos may be old and lack sufficient power pickups. He may need different turnouts.
It’s all speculation at this point,
Rich
certainly those making the comment (@CMStPnP ) know what it means
That is up to him but I would redo the track plan.
Tortoise, frog juicers and signaling depends on his budget, in my opinion.
Where to begin? As I mentioned before this is just the beginning of things and this area that we’re looking at is 2 * 8 ft it has been broke in half to be moved and now must be reassembled. As far as the bus bars I mentioned, I have to crawl under the layout, and redo the wiring to simplify it and get a lot of the extra out of the way, I have many separately wired blocks. this is to be a small switching yard but not the main yard that in itself will run a distance of at least 6 ft per storage track. The switches all began life as powered I removed the switch machines so I could use caboose hobbies ground throws. I run both steam and Diesel as I model the Southern Pacific during the mid to early 50s. My locomotives all run from Atlas to Kato to intermountain and others. Now to the specifics being as this is a yard it is glued directly to half inch foam core with ballast applied around and through the rails not a main line type of application. The larger diesels do not go down into the facility as mentioned earlier they do not make the curve they stay on the strait tracks, the units that do make the curve and stall in that vicinity as well as on the frogs of the other switches are the v1000s, the RS 11s, and the rs3s. I run my units as a b b a lashups so they stay on the straight tracks as well. This area is where I store and service my diesels. The steam facility hasn’t really been started just the turntable has been set. I did experiment with a Tortoise switch machine but quickly realized with the number of turnouts I was going to ultimately employ my retirement would be spent almost completely on switch machines! As I mentioned I do not know the number of the turnouts themselves but they are all plastic frogs! I am afraid that those of you that are suggesting Time to Begin again are probably correct I just hate the idea and wonder how much of the materials will be salvageable. But that question cannot be answered until it is actually approached. Anyone who has any ideas whatsoever please feel free to chime in! I do like the idea about running a caboose with pickups for the switchers but what do you do for the small road units? I do have three of the bachman 060 steam switchers that I will look at to see if I can put pick up some of the tinder but that will be a project for some time later. I probably got my nomenclature wrong by using DCC. It is / was my belief that it was Operation of each individual locomotive separately on the same tracks I was fairly certain there was some sort of circuit that kept the locomotive alive across neutral or dead spots if they were not too big it’s all confusing to me so I have not looked into to it deeply at all being an old timer and just stuck in the DC way. If I am going to use inexpensive turnouts perhaps I should look into it? Looking forward to more replies guys thanks!
And it would still be nice if you told us more about the age and source of these turnouts, provide some better pictures, etc. From what I can see, some are not Atlas and many are VERY old. Better pictures would help us help you.
Sheldon
I will see what I can do. I can tell you that they have all come from eBay and I tried to purchase them in lots! But again as I said they were all powered and I removed the switch machine engine to make them manual . When I began modeling 50 years ago with a 40-year hiatus it was in ho and now I am in n scale. My motive power is all top shelf but boxed. I have gone the route as many other model railroaders and begun the new layouts by building all the equipment and structures first!
The N scale switches were all purchased in lots on ebay most are indeed Atlas number fours I assume All brands and sizes are included in the mix! I really like the idea of using a caboose with pickups and attaching it to the switcher pretty much permanently ( I was actually going to run each switcher with a caboose anyway as per railroad policy ) that would allow it I think to definitely cross over the turnouts but would look pretty stupid in the engine terminal. I am a 65-year-old apartment dweller subsisting on disability. So budget is definitely a concern with eBay being my hobby shop of choice. Is anybody out there willing to give a short course on how to electrify a caboose and transform it into a pickup vehicle?
have you tried cleaning the track and the wheels of the locos? try uisng odorless mineral spirits
After reading Firewalker’s latest replies, I am not convinced that the cause of the stalls is a loss of power on the dead frogs. But here is what I would do. Run some locos and match a stalled loco to the turnout that it stalls on. Pull up the turnout and build a test track with the turnout in it. See if the loco stalls on a cleaned test track that is perfectly level. That is probably the best way, if not the only way, to begin to isolate the problem.
Rich
sounds like you’re wondering if there’s power to all the rails and points on the turnout. you could just check with a voltmeter without removing the turnout.
maybe more feeders are needed
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Nope, I’m not wondering that at all. Everything on this thread so far is speculation. What I am thinking is that somehow, someway, the issue needs to be isolated.
The speculation is that a faulty loco is stalling on an unpowered frog. If that is the problem, is it because the wheelbase is too short to clear the dead frog, or is it because the power pickups are insufficient? Or, is that not the problem?
So while suggestions about cleaning the loco wheels and rails are helpful, while adding a powered caboose is interesting, while checking the levelness of the trackwork is smart, while powering frogs is admirable, while switching to DCC is curious, while replacing turnouts is a possible solution, while starting over is advisable but daunting, the question becomes which one should the OP do and in which order?
That’s why if I were to pay the OP a personal visit, the first thing that I would do would be to build a small, clean test track to run a faulty loco over a faulty turnout cuz you gotta start somewhere.
Rich
solving problems requires hypothesises
removing trackwork seems like a big step based on speculation.
- cleaning track and wheels is a simple first step,
- testing with a voltmeter is not destructive either.
- check that the diesel runs with either truck on the trails. I just repaired a diesel with a broken wire to one of the truck pickups.
there are other things to start with that don’t require ripping up the track
Yeah, but it beats starting over.
OK, great, but if that doesn’t do it, what next?
Rich
It’s not based upon speculation. It involves removing one turnout to set up a test track to see if the loco clears the frog. If it does, that points in one direction. If it doesn’t that sort of limits his problem solving options. It’s called the process of elimination, but it also gets to the heart of the speculation that there is something amiss with a particular loco on a particular turnout.
Rich
of course it is. you’re guessing that that is the problem before ruling out other simpler causes
perhaps before removing the turnout from the layout, and with all the other mentioned possibilities ruled out, do as you’re suggesting using a spare turnout to build some test track wired the same way as on the layout and make sure the loco (with clean wheels) can run on that track
if it does perhaps just removing and replacing the suspect turnout with a new one would fix the problem. Of course the someone can try to identify the problem with the removed turnout and repair it.
but if this is occuring on more than one turnout, it’s unlikely that all the turnouts are defective.
greg, the speculation is focusing on the locos and the turnouts. By implication, the OP is saying that all of his locos stall on all of the turnouts. Now, that may be an overstatement on my part, but that is how I read his initial post and his subsequent replies.
You go your way, and I will go mine, but again if it were me, I would take one faulty loco and one faulty turnout and build a small test track to see what happens.
Rich
On that point, I will agree.
Rich
Respectfully, it would have been really nice to know it was N scale from the start.
Good luck, I have no practical N scale experience.
Sheldon
When I was in N scale I had some Code 55 #5 turnouts that started developing issues. Turns out that the points were not picking up power consistently from the stock rails. A four-axle locomotive would stall when one truck was over the frog and the other truck was over the points. No power on that side. Dead. I solved the problem with a feeder to the dead point rails.
As recommended above, use a voltmeter or test light to check the electrical continuity of each rail and point in your turnouts. If you find dead rails, fix these, and your four- and six-axle locomotives should run through the turnout with no issue.
Hope this helps,
DFF
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