I gave this advice earlier on a similiar thread… You can get an MRC Prodigy Express for $102 on www.wholesaletrains.com. I just think it’s a really good deal, that’s why I keep suggesting it.
It has a very similiar design to the NCE Powercab (and very comparable capabilities), but is totally upgradeable to the better Prodigy Advance. You could buy the Express, then upgrade up from there as your needs evolved. The NCE is also good I’m sure, and upgradable, but not to the extent the Express is I’m sure.
I’ve never been able to have anyone explain to me in tangible terms what the advantage or flexibility of the Loconet is over a regular DCC control bus.
Shawnee - Without checking their website I don’t believe that NCE makes a dedicated auto-reverser. When DCC first came out people used a separate booster as an auto-reverser, a rather expensive why to do it. Since then numerous third party suppliers have introduced auto-reversers. All perform the function, some better or faster than others, with price being a differentiating factor as well. My preference and experience has been with the PS-Rev from Tony’s which is now a PSX-AR or something like that.
Other replies are correct in stating that to do walk around you will need a SmartBooster. That’s because the PowerCab itself functions as the command station so that when you unplug it you in essence unplug the command station from the layout. The SmartBooster gives full walk around capability and increases the total power of the system. Well worth the additional cost, but is something that could always be added later after you up and running and comfortable with the system.
The auto-reverser is really easy to install. Simply double gap the reversing section on boths ends like you would with DC. The 2 wires from the track bus go into the reverser and the output of the reverser goes to the isolated reversing section. Done! All the other stuff has to do with adjustments that typically aren’t need. I’ve never changed them on mine.
I’ll repeat what I said in an earlier post. DC engines running on DCC do not like reversing sections. I had a friend running a DC engine on DCC through a reverse loop. The loco was running just fine then all of a sudden it went into reverse without stopping. He stopped the engine, change direction to forward again and it come out of the loop. We tried running it through the loop again and it did the same thing. Why? Because the reverser was reversing the ‘phased polarity’ of the reversing section. I don’t know about you but I don;t want to take my new $100 loco and running at 1/2 throttle then switch direction. Not good for the motor.
The good news for me with NCE is that with my layout, there’s not a lot of room to walkaround anyway. It’s basically a elongated donut shape cut by an aisle, to maximize running space. Center spot id about 4 feet wide. So that’s not a worry. Bigger issue is probably the DC loco capability. I’ve got to check my locos tonight to see how many are plug n’ play…most of the Katos are I know. But I’ve got to either sell the rest, or consider Zephyr. That’s something to consider.
If only…NCE could accomodate DC loco slot. I guess I need to do more deep research and bit more pondering, but y’all have really helped me here, got me off to a good, and enthusiastic start, and I’m indebted to you. Thank you.
And thank you for the note on the auto reverser from Tonys Trains. Very helpful to start to orient me on how to accomodate that. I think that’s a really neat feature…saving all the hassle of the reverse looping.
NCE or Zephyr…maybe look at prodigy at 100 bucks too…and figure which is best. Got to figure if NCE is that much user-friendly than Zephyr…the Digitrax stuff does look complicated.
Well, it looks like 10 of my 12 locos are equipped with DCC slots…good news. Funny, when I bought them it wasn’t even a consideration, never gave it ba second thought.
Non of your questions have been “stoopid.” These are all questions everybody has when first looking into DCC.
I won’t go into the advantages of a peer to peer network over a polled network because, although the advantages are real, they won’t make much difference in most model railroad situations.
I will, however, suggest you look at a few of the things that you can do with Loconet:
As simply as possible, the peer-to-peer Loconet has plug-n-play ability for all current & future Digitrax products without modification.
Other DCC systems that use polled buss (or master-slave) systems have to get their command station/throttle software upgraded periodically to account for new products that weren’t forseen when the last software upgrade was made (Lenz, for example, is up to Version 3 software).
Digitrax, OTOH, has had only a single software upgrade to the Chief system since it came out in the 1990’s, and that was right after it came out. Since then, Digitrax has added 3 new throttle designs, 4 new block detectors, radio throttles, infrared throttles, power managers, signalling and so on. And all without upgrading it’s software. Loconet allows that to happen.
Shawnee, here is what I did with my EZ. For walk around I cut off the stock lead on the power cable to track. Added about 6 foot, use a extion cord for the power pack so I can move around with the main controler.
For the far end of my bench I used a slot car racing trick. From my main power block that feed the feeders I ran + and - wires to 2 screws that are screwed through the bench work. I have allagator clips on the end for the power wires to the track. I un hooke the clips from the main power wires and hook them to the screws and I am 15 feet from my normaly postion I run from.
If you like PIC I will post them, way simpler than it sounds like. You could do it 15 minutes max, took me 20![;)]
I can run 4 BLI’s Steam with sound on the small 1 amp power supply. I am not rich, but can spend $150 to $600 a month on this hobby. I still get the itch for a better DCC system and I can buy one depending on how my sales go. But ever time I am ready to pull the triger on a new system I stop and think. Why? In fact many of the people here in a round about way talk me out of upgrading. I want more F button control (for sound options) and EZ will only handel F-1 to F-8. But it was pointed out over and over most people only use up to F-8? So why up grade if the power pack is not shutting down?
I am odd, running a $600.00 Steam engine on a used $30.00 EZ from T-Stage.
By the way when you finaly jump to sound you will be hooked like me. I held out for some time. You can all use the F-8 button when you dont want any sound.
I personally cannot stand buying half of anything. I think that the basic DCC systems are ok and necessary. Posts such as “why dont I have enough power to program?” confirms my thinking that these basic DCC systems may or may not have the “Beef” to feed the engines.
I went totally to the high extreme by buying the Super Chief 8 amp, power supply 2012 etc etc etc… I just finished soaking in the SE8c signalling for the CPL B&O’s no less these last few weeks. Sometimes the HUM in my house when I fire up the train room eclipses the one under the computer that is driven by a 550 watt power supply on several rails backed by a massive APU Battery that keeps me “UP” when arkansas loses power at times.
Call me extreme, but Ive sucessfully ran trains and any mistakes I made was my own, not the equiptment’s fault.
Lot’s of good advice to your questions. I would opt for something a little more expensive than the EZ Command because of the expandability issue. I had the exact same questions as you when it was time for me to build by new layout. I ended up researching all the options both on-line and through some articles in MR mag, check out the Dec 2005 issue, and settled on the Zephyr. You should also consider a PSXAR from Tony’s, one each for your reverse loops. The PSXAR also doubles as a circuit breaker. When you figure that a DCC equipped loco goes for100$+, then the 40$ or so for the PSXAR makes sense. My first layout was DC and when I hooked up the Zephyr to the new one, albeit it is still under construction, I was hooked.
I’m definitely off the EZ Command option. IT comes down to NCE and Zephyr. I’m going to do more research build upon the great advice here. I’m printing out this thread for continued reference. It looks like both NCE and Zephyr have their own advantages. I probably won’t go wrong with either. NCE sounds like it’s a bit more intuitive, and Zephyr has more power and good exapandibility. Though the additional power unit for NCE seems not too expensive either. Guess I’ll spend a while on TonyTRains today. Their stuff is interesting too, and doesn’t seem like just manufacturer propaganda.
Let me humbly ask a question about train decoders…after all, that’s a key element to buy too. I’ve got ten of them to get, at some point. Where does one find information on decoders, say, for a Kato SD45? ie, for specific makes and types. Are all decoders created equal?
Oh, now I understand! That’s why none of the Digitrax systems can’t do Advanced consisting or access the higher functions. Their software can’t be upgraded. Yet other entry level systems like PA or the PowerCab can because those systems can have their software upgraded to be able to use newly developed products. Digitrax makes it so their software can’t be upgraded and also makes it so that you have to use their ‘loconet’ compliant products. Now I understand, its all business planning - planned obselesence so that user needs to purchase completely new system for a few hundred $$ instead of an upgraded chip for $20. Now it makes sense.
I’ve used all 3 major systems - Digitrax, NCE and PA. IMO, the info on Tony’s website is good information presented in a unbiased, easy to follow manner. Keep doing your research. There’s no doubt that any of the three will be able to run your layout, it really comes down to an ease of use factor. Keep in mind that your primary interface with a DCC system is the throttle you will hold in your hand (if you can [:-^]). Ultimately, if you’re not happy with how you use the throttle, the information it provides, you won’t be happy with the system regardless of how little or much you spent on it.
Regarding decoders, not all decoders are equal. Figure out how many fuctions you need for lights since you’re not interested in sound. I recommend a minimum of 4 functions. Remember that F0 and F1 are usually the front and rear headlights. If you want working ditchlights you need 2 more funct
jktrains, it seems to me that you just don’t want to understand because you don’t like Digitrax products. You should maybe do a little more research before you bash a great product. When you do not understand how a product works or you make false comments about a product then that just goes to show that you have no credibility.
Sorry, lets clarify - A Zephyr system can not do Advanced consisting or that’s what Digitrax experts have said. Since Shawnee has said he’s considering a Zephyr I didn’t feel then need to be more specific.
CSX Robert - Is that to say that when Digitrax FINALLY comes out with a duplex radio system it will be able to access up to F28. What about users that don’t buy the new radio system, how will they be able to access up to F28? Will they just be able to magically access it because the radio system is on the market? What about people who already have a simplex radio system? How will they upgrade? Will they need to upgrade their throttles also? If the only way they can access the higher functions is to buy a duplex radio system, that’s what’s called planned obsolesence
I have friends who have a their D systems for 6-7 years. They’ve never heard of an upgrade. In this day and age of technology items such as computers, cell phones, ipods etc being outdated almost as soon as you buy them that there haven’t been tech advances that a software update could take advantage of? Or is it more of a chicken or egg approach. Is every new Loconet product made by Digitrax able to be used on current systems because they’re simply backwards compatible or because they haven’t change the system architecture in all those years?
I’ve used their products, including their manuals, and found them to be non-user friendly. Since Shawnee is a newbie and wants to share this hobby with is 8 y.o. son, one of his criteria was a user friendly system, in all areas - installation and operation.
shawnee - No matter which system you end up getting remember that there is no interchangeability. Once you buy Digitrax, for example, then in terms of future upgrades, expansions, additions, etc you are stuck with Digitrax unless you want to go to another system and start all over from scratch, as it were.
I would recommend the Tony’s autoreverser above most others. It’s solid-state, no relays, so it responds faster than the relay-style ones. It should in theory last longer, too, although I’ve never seen a post about an autoreverser of any kind failing. This unit also includes a circuit breaker, so if you have a short on your reverse loop the rest of the layout will keep running.
Hooking one up is as simple as running 4 wires - two from the power bus of the DCC system, and two out to the tracks of the reverse loop. After that, it’s completely transparent, which is why everyone likes these so much. That’s also a good thing for kids - they don’t have to keep track of things like where the rail gaps are. They can just run trains and let Tony do the polarity flips for them.
If price is really a problem, you can cheat a bit with multiple reverse loops. If there’s no chance that two engines will be hitting different loops at the same time, you can connect multiple loops to the same reverser. NOTE: This is not recommended. However, I would do that before I would use a manual toggle, particularly if the loops are a good distance apart and you’re usually only running one train. If you make sure the loops are all wired independently except for a connection at the autoreverser, then you can add more reversers at a later point if you decide that there’s a problem with using just one.