Could anyone offer info on the toughest (steepest, longest, etc) grade(s) on the old CB&Q? i.e. where was it, how steep, how long, etc.
I’m working on a project related to an old Q dynomometer car and this info would help a lot.
Thx much,
Stack
The Burlington Route Historical Society of which I used to be a member, would be a pretty good source of information. While it would be difficult for me to give you any specific answers, I do know that one of the Q’s toughest grades was in the Black Hills of South Dakota between Edgemont and Deadwood. The Burlington would use two T-2 class 2-6-6-2 locomotives just to lug ten cars on that particular stretch of trackage between Edgemont and Deadwood.
Does anyone else out there have any further information for Stack??
CANADIANPACIFIC2816
I would have nominated the old grade on Crawford Hill, NE from Crawford to Belden (tunnel)…
Not exactly what you asked but I would nominate Chicago to Denver as the longest. Chicago is at about 700’ and Denver is about 5280’ so the entire trip is uphill for the most part.
…If you want to consider long distance rise in elevation…How about the old Sante Fe from Chicago and above stated it’s at 700’…and when it reaches Flagstaff, Az., which is 7000’…I’d say that qualifies.
Realize that’s not CB&Q, just a long RR grade…
How about the main line that runs from Ottumwa, Ia. to Creston, Ia. to Pacific Junction, Ia. Was tough back in the days of steam and still causes problems to this day.
I also wonder if it wasn’t the line from Edgemont to Deadwood in the Black Hills. Back in 1980 I saw four SD-7’s or SD -9’s pulling hard to get a 25 car coal train up that grade. Joe
Ok Red Oak Hill on the Creston sub, Chariton,Ottumwa,Burlington and Kirkwood on the Ottumwa sub.Yates City on the Peoria line. The big hill right oout of Quincy on the Brookfield going back to Galesburg. Buda on the Mendota.I am sure some are in Missouri as well along the Brookfiled just I have never seen them.
Oh yeah Opehiem hill on the Barstow and Colona to just about Lynn as well.
Thanks for the ideas.
I can’t believe that I didn’t think of the Deadwood-Lead-Dumont grade! I’ve biked up that beast on a mountain bike. I believe part of it was 13% (the Fantail loop portion.) I’ve seen photos of the T-2 doubleheaded up there. That whole 114 mile route down to Edgemont is a great bike trail (Mickleson Trail). Couple tunnels and just beautiful.
Would the Creston grade be on the route of the Zephyr? I recall the climb from Quincy westward being pretty steep.
Crawford Hill is another great idea - lots of heavy curvature there as well. Its been a few years since I’ve been there and I’m sure a lot has changed. Cool place to watch trains.
Edgemont to Deadwood line had a maximum grade of 2% ascending for northward trains, with 3% descending. The longest section of 3% was about 13 miles from Dumont (highest point on CB&Q) to the the switch to head into the gold mine yard at Lead, it did ease to about 2% for roughly 2000’ at Englewood. Speed limit descending the 3% was 15 MPH.
If you had any doubts about your air or had an official riding, Englewood was a “Must” stop to recharge as you could normally hold the train there with the engine brakes.
The Hill City-Keystone branch (Black Hills Central) had 4% grades.
In the very early days of the Racetrack (late 1860s), the rails eastbound of downtown Hinsdale, Illinois dropped pretty severely toward swampy wetlands located where I-294 now resides, then back up again to the level where the Western Springs train station is today. (The current Highlands Station was built years later when the tracks were finally elevated on a fill across the valley.)
The steep grade in both directions is why a huge hobo camp was located on land just east of the tollway and north of the tracks. The double grades so close proximately allowed hobos to easily board trains heading in either direction because they slowed down to climb the tough grade.
[bow] Now THAT’S what I call an interesting piece of information…I did not know that even with the hundreds of times I have driven under the BNSF bridge crossing I-294 in that area…thanks PZ.
Jim –
Did you know that the CB&Q lost a locomotive one night right about where I-294 goes under the Racetrack?
It happened when they were first building the Q along the new route in the early 1860s. There was an underground river that flowed from north to south beneath Spring Rock Park – and it bubbled to the surface in the form of mineral springs (hence the park’s name) that formed wetlands just east of where the tollroad lies today. There were also areas of “quicksand” – fine sand and gravel suspended in water under pressure url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_liquefaction[/url]. The RR crews dumped some loose fill and gravel to mitigate the soft soil and then la
That branch, the only remaining part of the Q in the northern Black Hills, is presentlu used by the 1880 train.
Here is a video from last Monday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SC1lu-f3Y8
Poppa Zit-
I lived in Western Springs for 20+ years '45-'65, and had never heard that before. Thanks!
I live in San Diego now, but can remember the trains at night. And the “wheat rush” in the fall when the Q would break out and use the steam power. I was about 10 or so before the commuter line was complete diesel. I remember steam going into Chicago, but they were almost always diesels coming out.
My favorite spot to view trains was the old wooden bridge across the tracks near the Highlands station. I don’t know if it’s still there or not.
I haven’t been back since '99.
John Grier
The Burlington brake tests were undertaken to determine the practicability of using power brakes on long and heavy freight trains. In the 1886 tests these were five competitors - three buffer-brakes, one compressed-air brake, and one vacuum-brake. The tests comprised stops with trains of twenty-five and fifty vehicles, at 20 and FIG. 3. - Rapid-acting Vacuum-Brake Valve.
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Brake_(object)
George Westinghouse had developed a series of air brakes for trains, each one an improvement over the one before it. The brakes for freight trains, however, were still unsatisfactory in 1886. In the summer of that year Westinghouse agreed to test his latest air brakes for freight trains on a hill in West Burlington, Iowa.
http://www.iptv.org/iowapathways/mypath.cfm?ounid=ob_000189
Were these air brake tests done on the grade at Burlington because it was the biggest operational headache for the CB&Q?
While the grade climbing away from the Mississippi River is pretty stiff, I would think that the proximity of West Burlington Shops was a bigger factor in choosing the location of the air brake tests.
The Edgemont to Deadwood line had a branch that was even worse, running to Spearfish. The line was very difficult and was abandoned after several washouts. They only used it about 20 years.
There’s several links to other South Dakota rail videos on youtube too.