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Virginia Museum of Transportation applies to trademark N&W No. 611
It’ll be interesting to see how all the other railroads like this move, by requiring any other engine numbered 611 to pay the museum a ‘trademark’ fee to use that number. To avoid that number will require a fee or renumbering of their locomotive. My question is, how will the public be able to see the steam engine in question, as I can’t write about it without paying a fee to use the name and number, legally that is.
Future replica productions of J-class No. 611 will require licencing by the Virginia Museum of Transportation. Model train manufacturers take note if the patent succeeds.
That’s nuts. Union Pacific could break the bank if they got a patent for all of their historical engines. Lawyers are the Al Qaeda in America today.
Now I just lost intrest in this project, it’s all about money. It has nothing to do with the historical significance of this locomotive. I won’t be donating, or buying one piece of merchandise associated with Virginia Museum of Teansportation. Nice work, you lost a potential supporter!
Seems to me that N&W is the patent owner. They designed, built and donated 611 to VMT.
Why is everyone talking about patents? This about trademarks, a completely different animal.
What month will 611 return to revenue excursional service this year?
@LAWRENCE G HAWS - Disclaimer, I’m not a lawyer, but I know that, for example, the reason the Pentium processor (yeah, I’m talking about computers now) wasn’t called the 80586 (its predecessors being the 80486 and 80386) was because Intel discovered you can’t trademark numbers.
So other rail roads can rest easy. As long as they don’t call their ‘611’ “Class J No. 611” they’re in the clear.
Personally it sounds like a good idea, a way to raise revenue for the museum. It’s not as if a toy maker who wants to bypass the trademark for some reason can’t produce a nearly identical “Class J No. 612”…
“Now I just lost intrest in this project, it’s all about money.”
Well, you can’t exactly operate a large expensive steam locomotive on the collective foam out of railfans mouths, after all. They are restoring this thing to operation at a huge cost, I see no reason why they shouldn’t be able to recoup that cost.
It’s actually the United States Patent & Trademark Office. (USPTO)
Joe, You need to cut them a break. This is a not for profit and they will need all the revenue they can get to make this work. If they can see a percentage of the sale of T shirts, hats and the like, great. And, I’ll buy some. How many locomotives we’d like to see operating are languishing for lack of funds?
This subject came up a few days ago when it was initially posted on Facebook. I said it there and I’ll say it again: if this trademark goes through, it won’t change anything as far as railfanning and enjoying a historic locomotive goes. It is NO different than any other train, which has both railroad names and paint schemes that are trademarked. All this means is you can’t sell merchandise featuring the Class J 611 without permission or paying a royalty. Model train manufacturers will pay a royalty to the museum from now on. I see no problem with that. How they’ll deal with the “Norfolk and Western” side of it is another question. I assume NS has the rights to that name.
Robert: if it becomes an issue with models, they’ll just use another J class number.
Sigh. Don’t these people learn from the past? CSX tried this. UP tried this. Both failed. It’s bad press, and it brings in very little money. All it really does is tick people off and steer people to go elsewhere. Even if it’s just using N&W #610 or moving on to another steam engine type entirely. There’s plenty of other steam preservation programs across the USA. Why bother dealing with the #611 trademark nonsense when one can work with so many others for free?
Makes me wonder… If someone takes a video of the 611 on a trip and posts it online, will the VMT folks issue cease and desist letters? What about O. Winston Link’s collection? Will they petition that all use of his #611 art be subject to licensing agreements? How about old videos? Or books? Or models? How far will this go?
If this goes far enough, the only folks who will really benefit from this scheme will be the patent lawyers …
This is all very disappointing. Somewhat of a backhanded slap to Railfans everywhere. Perhaps going to the level of Death by a thousand paper cuts!!! Tie everyone and everything up in litigation because a railfan posted a video of this locomotive on YouTube with a payment setup. That person earns oh, let’s say about $25.00 over a year or two. The Museum, will ferret that person out and demand royalties. How many others will they pursue??? Emphasis on SUE!!!
Too many lawyers and not enough real work to do. Sorry, I know Lawyers have their place in Society, but this blanket Trademark licensing scheme, without any up front defined pricing is just way over the top as far as I am concerned. To be blunt, well, now you will never see a nickel of donations from me for this locomotive. I will put my donations elsewhere.
And, YES, this does tick me off. They could still make plenty of money with trinket sales, etc.
Do you have a license or permission to post hat photo on your website - Trains Magazine?