NS has been doing some advertising in Southern Minnesota. Maybe there is some kindof something going to happen between NS and DM&E? Anyway I would love to see the DM&E get into the PRB. BNSF can’t keep up with demand and lots of the public doesn’t know or can’t link the two together. Sooner or later its either the DM&E into the PRB or they revive the cowboy line.
NS advertises on our local station here in Nebraska every morning. I think it is just a generic ad for probably the entire US rather than a local heads up.
And while we are strictly UP and BNSF - our local news always runs a NS engine front when they do a railroad story. Go figure.
Neither NS nor CSX would overtly support DM&E, as to do so might jepordize their relationship with the Big Two out west, UP and BNSF.
I could see CP and CN having an interest in DM&E, as both have their own coast to coast networks and could concievably stand alone with friendly connections to UP or BNSF.
A KCS + DM&E merger would solidify that combined entity into a larger 7th Class I, and would be consistent in the vein of two regionals combining into one.
However, the best scenario for everyone concerned about rail competition and rail capacity through the Northern Tier is a combination of DM&E + MRL in conjunction with the State of Montana providing the footwork for the physical connection between the two, and the states of Idaho and Washington providing the coastal connections to the west via the preserved ex-Milwaukee PCE grade.
That scenario would be interesting. Not knowing anything about the status of the MRL except hearsay…would that really work? Sounds pretty interesting in concept.
Not that I wouldn’t be shocked, shocked, schocked if the later happened, but are these two eventualities mutuall exclusive?
Gabe
…What is meant by “And the states of Idaho and Washington providing the coastal connection via the preserved ex Milwaukee grade”…? Are those states actually holding that ex ROW of the Milwaukee for a future use…If so that’s interesting. Preserving something possibly useful as such seems unusual in current times.
Maybe the person on your news is a NS fan [:D]
Wouldn’t that be fantastic! I rather like the “horse” myself!
Getting past the impossibility of this ever happening…How would the Washington,Idaho,MRL,Montana,DM&E Railroad (call it W&…E for short) make any money? First, it would have a gazillion dollar loan to pay off. By your description of the route, let’s say it’s twice as extensive of a project as the DM&E PRB project. So, we’re talking somewhere between $4Billion and $12 Billion. Then, they would have trancon traffic fighting for track time with coal trains. On top of that, it seems like the route would be sort of the long way of getting there. I have a hard time picturing it working.
FM has a good idea but MS speaks all too logically. Not only that, the enviro challenges to relaying the Milwaukee lines would be huge. You’d need a railroad with mega-dollars and lawyers to fight that off. I don’t think MRL has much spending cash and we know DME doesn’t. That being said, I think CN or CP would be a great contender for merging with DME. Both have transcons, so they don’t have to worry about ticking off mommy and daddy. Both railroads aren’t the big coal haulers that BNSF and UP are. It could be interesting.
Of course if the DME doesn’t get into the PRB then I guess it doesn’t really matter what happens. DME is pretty much a glorified multi-state rail spur without coal.
Are you kidding?
Twenty minutes after the D.M.& E. completes their Powder River Basin extension and the rehab of their Wall-to-Winona mainline, “Uncle Pete” and the “Big New Santa Fe” will get into a bidding war for control of the line. The two biggest players certainly aren’t going to allow a short line upstart to last very long as an independent in this rich traffic territory.
But that’s just my opinion, and I could be wrong.
So many responses, let me try and put 'em all on one post…
I’ll get to that possibility in a moment…
No
The State of Washington owns most of the ex-Milwaukee grade through the state, sans the vicinity of greater Seattle. In Idaho, Potlatch Corporation owns and operates the ex-PCE from Plummer ID to St. Maries ID. Between St. Maries and Calder ID I’m not sure who owns it but it is used for off road vehicle access. From Calder ID to Avery, the Forest Service owns the ROW in the form of a relatively new highway. From Avery ID to Haugen MT the Forest Service owns the ROW in the form of a gravel road partway and the Hiawatha Bike trail the rest of the way. So
So many things to comment on, and me not smart enough to put them all in one post…[:I]
Somewhere in there, is an old farmer joke. The bank won’t give a young farmer a loan, unless someone co-signs for it. When he brings in his rich uncle to sign for the loan, the banker asks: “Why don’t you just borrow the money from your rich uncle?” I realize it’s a catch-22, but it seems the reason the DM&E was given consideration for the loan in the first place,was that they are an underdog/upstart railroad without deep pockets.
You’d have to give me some really favorable odds, to get me to bet that Wyoming, Montana, and the Fedreral Government would all three be willing to pony up big bucks for a project like this.
Can you find some information about the northern, and middle (?!?) routes? That would be interesting.
Don’t be so sure. What’s the Godfather say? “I’m going to make you an offer you can’t refuse”[:-,]
(My apologies for the 4 posts instead of 1. I’m really not that smart.)
If the DME makes it into the PRB I really don’t think anyother railroad will be in a hurry to acquire or merge with them. Who wants to acquire a few billion dollars of debt?
I’d think other railroads would wait and see what happens. If they can’t make a go of it and the DME goes into bankruptcy and is liquidated, then the bidding war will begin. A company interested in getting into the PRB might then be able to buy only the trackage needed for that and not the entire DME/ICE.
Jeff
Think of it in the context of how the states and the feds approach a highway project. That’ll whittle down the odds.
All I found so far on the web is from the unofficial DM&E site, a news release circa 1997…
http://www.visi.com/~mfrahm/dme/news/southern.html
"ROUTE SELECTION TRIP REPORT
(snip)
North. When we began this process, we reviewed reasonable corridors for where and how we could build a rail extension from our line into the Powder River Basin. We started with three general routing corridors – the Northern, Middle and Southern corridors. In our September newsletter, after my initial round of meetings and site visits, we sidelined the Middle corridor and stopped development efforts related to that project. Today we have reached the stage that we are able to do the same with the Northern corridor. Unless unforeseen issues manifest themselves on the Southern approach, we are not going to spend additional resources on further developing the Northern corridor.
(snip)
WHY SOUTH?
The Southern route provides the highest degree of flexibility to address landowner issues along the way, and seems to have less of an impact on neighboring landowners. This flexibility is a key consideration in the decision. Within the Southern corridor, there are real alternatives. If there is an insurmountable problem on one alignment, be it
Yes. They have a current study group examining laying new track on much of it.