I am trying to make a car load of wheels on axles, as per Doc Wayne’s ideas and images, in my case using H-column plastic (either K&S or Evergreen. I am trying to attach the wheels before I paint the whole thing, but failure sets in at this point. I tried Loctite CA, but the bond is not durable over time (set for 24 hrs prior to handling again). I tried various craft glues- no luck. I am currently trying GE silicone 3hr clear sealant (waterproof). In each instance, I roughed the surfaces for a better “tooth” before using each type of adhesive. The CA may hold, but after all wheels are mounted on the carrier (designed to be removeable from the car), I am afraid just a tap might loosen them, as per my test experience. Has anyone a better suggestion? Cedarwoodron
ACC, AC, or Super Glue has no ‘shear strength’ when bonding smooth surfaces with no grain. The ‘joint will’ just pop apart’ I use 90 second epoxy(I find mine at Hobby Lobby). This will bond metal and plastic surfaces together. Save your Super Glue for attaching small detail items that will not have any twisting force or stresses put on them.
Jim
I agree with Jim that super glue isn’t for an application like this. Epoxy will work well and has the needed bond strength. I usually use the 5 minute variety to give me a little more time to change my mind[:)]
Joe
E-6000 is good stuff for challenging, dissimilar bonds like those in this situation.
Well, so far I have tried the GE clear silicone- failed; Loctite 5 min. Epoxy- failed; 3M plastic emblem &trim adhesive- failed. I mean by “failed”, in that there is a momentary hold, (after 24 hrs), but just nudge the wheel and the joint fails. I don’t want to repeat that with about 20 wheels arranged on my rack insert piece, or I’ll have wheels all over the place. The material issue is the acetal/delrin of the old surplus wheels (which I accumulate as I switch out cars to metal wheels). I note that several epoxy products specifically list a number of plastics that are NOT compatible with that particular product, so I avoided purchasing them. I am aware of Bond-it, but hesitate to spend a lot of money for such a minor application. I don’t know what brand names the “cyano” adhesives come under, except one that Walthers has (had?) called Mike’s, that was a tiny eye drop type bottle for 12.95, plus shipping presumably. Same issue- money out for small amount of product in return. The thing is- I have seen several examples of this railroad wheel load done on various websites ( not the Tichy product) using what the author referred to as “old wheels”, so I’m a bit stumped… Cedarwoodron
I still bet the E-6000 will work…[;)]
However, I’d bet if you can bead-blast or otherwise roughen the delrin surface where the adhesive has to contact, it might provide enough tooth to help some things stick to it.
BTW, the CA product specially for delrin does work from what I’ve heard, so that’s an option, although expensive.
Could it be that the “old wheels” were metal? Or at least the axles were?? Such as Athearn plastics wheel sets ??
The wheels are definitively NOT metal, as I can make an easy cut into them with just a simple xacto blade- they are smooth acetal plastic, and if they were metal, I would have just cleaned them and left them on the cars I am converting. So, that is not the case. Some wheels came from Model Power, Bachman, Tyco, and Athearn BBs, and they were all acetal plastic- or even cheesy nylon. Cedarwoodron
Ron,
Give the wheels a little ‘sanding’ to rough up the surface and then put some epoxy on them, and let them ‘sit’ for about 10 minutes - You should have a good bond. Slippery engineering plastics are the toughest stuff to bond, and you need to get a ‘tooth’ in the material so that the glue will stick.
Jim
Ron, if the wheels you’re using are plastic ones (usually on metal axles) that were changed out for newer all-metal replacements on cars running on your layout, it’s the plastic used in the wheels which is causing the problem. Most of them were made in some form of engineering plastic, and the only adhesive which works with that type of plastic (and of which I’m aware) is a product known as Cyano-Epoxy, a chemical combination of ca and epoxy, and a rather expensive product.
I used the styrene plastic wheelsets available from Tichy, either with their 40’ wheel-service flatcar or as a separate detail item. Here’s a LINK to Tichy’s catalogue. The flatcar with wheel load is kit #4023, and #3004 and #3010 are kits for eight wheelsets and 96 wheelsets respectively.
I built the flatcar with homemade removeable wood sides to use as a MoW department car:
…then used the Tichy wheelsets and the supplied racks for them, along with some styrene scraps, to make loads for a couple of gondolas. Because all of the parts are styrene, ordinary solvent cement (I use lacquer thinner) works well to bond the wheels to the racks, leaving the assembled load solid enough to add or remove from cars whenever you wish. While the Tichy load is intended to make a two-level load, I made two single level loads, one to fit a 41’ Accurail gondola:
[IMG]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/doctorwayne/Get%20a%20load%20of%2
Wayne, If, between Jim Bernier and my local work pal, Antonio FP45, who has another suggested solution, it appears I can’t fix things, I may have to pry open my rusty wallet and get Tichy’s styrene set of wheels. Its just that I hate to not be able to effectively use these old wheels (my frugal nature). I am getting that Epoxy E-6000 today also. My thanks to you and those other wise heads who have commented. It’s like those old acetal wheels live on long after the rest of the model is gone…maybe I’ll dump them into a blck of casting resin and make a modern art item out of them! Cedarwoodron
C,
The E-6000 is not an epoxy. It’s clear and can be used by just sticking things together with it or by using it as a contact cement by coating the bonding site, then letting dry for a couple of minutes before carefully placing the items together. It also stays flexible.
I used it to glue ME track down on my lower level hidden tracks, as it was lots easier than spiking! It’s partially self-leveling, so as long as I kept the dot I placed ever 6" or so on top of the ties small, it would level enough to clear between the rails as it settled. Don’t know if it’s the same as Delrin, but the ME ties are slippery plastic and it worked well enough sticking them down.
Here’s a link:
Have you tried the Testors Red tube “airplane” glue? Goop in small quntities should hold too, especially if given just a little roughage to work from. If you’re glueing to a removable wood deck try the Testors Green tude for Wood and Metal. It works pretty good for securing the plastic to wood too.
I think that the nine or ten bucks for the Tichy wheels is a pretty good deal. They look a whole lot better than the ones which you’re using. I still use plastic wheels on most of my rolling stock, but had a pretty good supply of old Train Miniature and Walthers wheels that were wobbly and out-of-round which were being used as scrap loads and scenic details. Most are now gone, as they look really clunky next to the Tichy ones. [swg] Most of those defective wheelsets were replaced with plastic ones - I have metal wheels on much of the newer stuff on the layout, but am not a big fan of them - they’re too noisy and the shiny treads really draw attention to the fact that they’re grossly over-width.
Wayne
Seems to me that you have already spent more $$$ experimenting with different types of glue,adhesives & solvents than you would have on the Tichy wheels And as mentioned before…they are more realistic looking than “salvaged” ones
Were you planning on grinding the points off the axles to make them look more realistic?
Again sems to me Tichy is the way to go…but thats just me[:|]
Actually, my costs so far have been about $3, as I had most of my adhesives tried in this experiment already in hand. I thought of grinding the points off the shafts (the axles are all metal), but since they can easily nest in the gondola, hidden along the side panels, why spend the time goofing around at my bench top grinder? If I can use them as scenic embellishments around the enginehouseor in the railyard, I will make the effort and grind the points- if I find a workable adhesive… The railing structure was built from on-hand plastic materials and the car is an Athearn BB I pulled from my endless supply of one night bench project boxes already on hand as well. I don’t like cha$ing a project, but I may stretch that principle by purchasing the Tichy wheels, if the E-6000 isn’t the solution. I have built some of Don’s kits before and have been very pleased to be served by his most excellent advice and assistance, when I have called or written. The one thing that is priceless, is the advice and counsel one receives on this forum when a modeling issue arises on the bench. That these discussions become part of the knowledge base for others is the added intrinsic benefit! Will post when I try the E-6000 stuff… Cedarwoodron
Tried the E-6000 adhesive by again, roughening the contact surfaces-both the sample support H-rails of which my wheel rack is made (and sized to fit inside an Athearn BB standard 50 ft gondola as a removable load) AND the contact surface portions of each wheel. A 24hr set was allowed, but the final result was a failure of durable contact. I found that not only did the adhesive provide only a momentary tug on the parts, but that I could easily peel it off both the wheel and railing surfaces, very similar to the silicone I tried earlier. Now I have one final idea: I have used simple Walmart primer gray on delrin/acetal chassis parts in some previous diesel model repainting efforts. After allowing it to thoroughly dry, I both air-brushed and can-sprayed additional colored paints on top of that primer with no bad effect. The first contact- the primer to the acetal plastic- was good, and the over layers of paint adhered well to the primer layer. My thought is to paint the separate wheels and the holding rack with prime and allow them to thoroughly dry, then go back and use my Loctite CA adhesive to glue the painted parts into an assembly. After that, I will paint the entire assemble with a rusty or dark reddish color. My thought is that the attachment of the CA will be between painted parts- between cured paint as a “skin” over the separate parts. The strength of a static bond based on the paint may be sufficient to enable the assembly to stay put. As it will ride inside a box (the gondola), there is nowhere for anything to go- that is, to fall “off” so to speak. If not, then Tichy gets my business! This is getting to be real work, you know! cedarwoodron
Hi!
Why do you need to glue these in the first place? The only reason I can think of is so that you can pull the insert out of the gon as one big section.
Otherwise, put in some prototype blocking and place them in separately. If done right, they won’t go anywhere on their own. And if they are free, you can remove them at will.
Probably not an acceptable answer, but its an alternative.
In the close order they are arranged, one wheel tucked in behind/in front of the other, blocking is only feasible at each end, which I provided for on my holding rack. I would be getting into extreme teeny-tiny land to block anything in between. Cedarwoodron