Since we know manufactures watch and read these from time to time. How many of you have a genuine intererst in narrow gauge modeling, primarly HOn3 or On30 but do not actualy do this and why. Is it the cost of whatever prototype line you wish to model, ie SPng, C&S ect, that the only real option is brass? Is it the abundance of craftsman/laser wood kits to get the correct look to that era of modeling? I know for many these are the main reasons. Track and turnouts are not really any more expensive than standard gauge unless you are getting the dual gauge versions. I think so of the newer buildings from Woodland Scenics might even fit into the narrow gauge world, espicaly if they started to do a few more “wild west” style ones. I have seen examples of both scales done in 4x8 space or less with excellent results and lead one to believe the layout is larger than it really is. Sometimes less really is more. Lets keep is fun and clean, no bashing. But lets explore why some of you have not taking the plunge to the narrow minded side of the hobby, and maybe what might be done to remove these fears or issues that prevent you from exploring what I have found to be a very enjoyable part of our hobby. Mike and Michele T
I really like the look of On30. I have always liked Climax locomotives, and the Bachmann On30 2-truck Climax looks like a real jewel. I recognize that a great deal can be accomplished with “less”, and that I could have a very enjoyable On30 layout with two or three locomotives instead of the eight HO locomotives that sit on the layout at any given time (with others in the display case).
About 4 1/2 years ago, I moved and recognized that it would be a prime time to make the change if I was going to do it. I was at the Timonium train show with some cash in my pocket and knew that was a great opportunity to see many products and go ahead and make the decision on whether or not I would change scales. I stuck with HO for two reasons:
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The change in scale from HO to O results in 3 dimensions of size increases. Although backwoods-style On30 runs on track the same gauge as HO, other things are far larger. I thought about how much bigger a small combination station (say 60 scale feet long) would be and how much space that would take up on a new shelf layout… not just length but also the increased depth would affect how many tracks could fit through that space. The “volume” of the structures, although they would be easier on the eyes to build, became a concern as I thought about it.
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I have two drawers of un-assembled HO kits and a very nicely stocked drawer of little detail parts and people. Detailing things is one of my favorite aspects of the hobby, and if I changed scales, all of those little parts collected over the years would no longer be of use. Further, my chance of selling them for anything close to their purchase price would be very slim, as many of those parts are distinctive in terms of era.
So, I still admire On30, and especially those little Climax locomotives, every time that I see them. It remains something that I co
Well, other than the fact of I wouldn’t know what to do with the load of standard gauge I alreaqdy have I also like to run several trains at once, hence. two and three track mainlines, something not very realistic in narrow gauge.
I do have a few pieces of HOn3 I have picked up over the years but have no intention of running them, but I still enjoy looking at them.
One thing I know for a fact is that “if” I had gone narrow gauge years ago instead of more standard gauge equipment I could have saved myself a boatload of money!!!
Hindsight, it’s “always” 20/20
Mark
HOn3 does not have to be Blackstone at Blackstone prices. Is it easier and simpler to go the Blackstone and Micro-Trains route? Yes. But there are alternatives to both Blackstone and brass.
Roundhouse 2-8-0 kits can be had on eBay for less than $100. So can Roundhouse Shays. The Shay is certainly a more difficult build, but there is plenty of advice and guidance on how to do it right. And NWSL offers improved gearing for all 4 models (2 different versions of each).
Ken Kidder made various versions of 0-4-0s and 0-4-0Ts. These are also less than $100 on the auction site. They make a great beginning for learning to bash and remotor an engine.
Model Railroader ran an article back in the '60s are converting the little Egger-Bahn HOn30 diesel to HOn3. I sure it’s still practical today to convert the re-issued and improved version that has been advertised and reviewed in MR. RMC had an article on converting the Bachmann 70 tonner to HOn3.
Grandt makes 2 little 4 wheel diesel kits for HOn3. They generally sell for $50.
Moving up the scale, the FED 4-4-0s and 2-6-0s and the Kidder Porter Mogul generally auction for under $200. Remotor kits are readily available, as are detail parts. The Keystone Shay - a more difficult kit - goes for less than $150 with the NWSL motorizing kit.
As has been stated, a small narrow gauge layout only needs 2-3 locomotives to be complete. 20 cars and you are good to go.
I have enjoyed the journey of avoiding RTR and RTR prices for my small combination standard and narrow gauge layout.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
…modeling foggy coastal Oregon, where it’s always 1900…
Picture Gorge & Western Railway (HO)
Port Orford & Elk River Railway & Navigation Co (HOn3) - Home of the tall cedars
I’m french and here, in France like in Europe, On30 is very popular. I have 10 engines, 9 from Bachmann, 1 from BLI. A link to see the french US train Forum: http://us.leforum.eu/index.php
Only reason I wouln’t consider it is the limited selection of equipment.
The problem for me with On30 is that while the trains are a nice size, the buildings are O scale and take up a lot of room. One of the reasons I like S is that the S trains are also a nice size (about the same size as On30 - I have even bought some On30 cars to convert to S standard gauge) but S buildings take up about half the space of O. Plus standard gauge offers more variety than narrow gauge.
But some where down the road, I plan to do some narrow gauge modeling in Sn2 using HOn3 track, trucks, couplers, and converted HOn3 locomotives ( I have 4 of the Roundhouse HOn3 kits ). I also have a brass Forney imported by Train and Trooper as well as some car kits, Shinohara and ME track, Kadee trucks and various parts. Whether I add it to the main layout or just have a small narrow gauge layout is still to be decided.
My real problem is - I love it all, but only have time to do some of it.
Enjoy
Paul
Me too as well as the limited prototypes with sufficient amount of readily available information to model. For the most part, it’s a challenge to see who can model either Colorado, the East Broad Top or Maine the best. Even freelancing has it’s limitation since narrow gauge railroading in the USA were never really more than a small companies with limited operations. I think freelancing anything larger and more “properous” than the Rio Grande system would seem unrealistic.
I would like to if I had planned it into the current layout. Particularly a logging railroad in the mountains bringing logs to an interchange yard(dual gauge);. Maybe next layout.
Richard
Oh man would I love to. I go to Colorado twice a year and in the summer we mountain bike near Montrose and near Gunnison so I tend to stop in at the Cimarron Narrow Guage exhibit the National Park Service runs. Its where the Denver & Rio Grande NG exited the Gunnison River Canyon on its way to the Montrose valley. I get the itch every year, especially when I look at the Blackstone stuff, but I just talk myself out of it by the time I get back to Texas. I guess its the fact that being a 5th generation Texan and a History Teacher I need to as Darryl Royal say’s “…dance with what brung ya”, and stick to the Texas RR’s.
Steve B
Having spent half my life in Colorado, I would love too and have often thought about it. And no, it’s not the craftsman work that would be required. That is actually a really big plus for me. I really love the idea of a highly detailed structure/scene. Therein is the reason I haven’t switched – space. If I went to HOn3, I wouldn’t get the detail and uniqueness that makes NG so fascinating. In order to capture that I need to go to On3. But as others have said, O scale structures are still large even in NG, so to do it justice, I need more space than I have available.
If I ever get that dream basement, you might well see me going to On3.
My big limiter is the track. If I did anything, it’ be HOn(Whateveruses the N scale track) but there; aren’t many Narrow Gauges in the midwest, and the interest is more casual, so if anything, a narrow-gauge engien would flopped on a flat car and used as a display.
Thanks to Roundhouse though, most of the Narrow Gauge RRs now have coaches, so a truck swpa would make them really easy to do.
Flashwave:
HO scale using N scale track has several names. The most common is HOn30 indicating a 30" track spacing. It is also called HOn 2 1/2 (2 1/2 feet = 30") and in Europe it is called HOnE (I have no clue what the ‘E’ refers to). Regular N scale track actually does not look realistic because the ties are too small and too close together for HOn30. Peco makes HOn30 track with HO scale ties placed at proper spacing for HO scale. The Peco track even has the ties somewhat irregularily spaced and the ends are not quite square to model the rough track work often associated with NG railroads.
My layout will be HO whenever it is built, but I chose HOn30 for a small mine scene because I bought a well used N scale 4-4-0 very cheap as an experiment and used the drive mechanism to build the HOn30 ‘critter’ you see in my avatar. I have another N 4-4-0 to do the same thing with. Building the critter was a blast!
Dave
If you go looking farther afield, narrow gauge doesn’t have to be limited to teakettle locomotives and short trains. It can be quite up to date.
New Zealand’s standard gauge is 42". They run some pretty impressive trains both diesel and electric:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jFBsq-zDns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbXAg3niJ98&feature=related
AND, there’s quite a bit of preserved steam action in NZ. Not bad for a country with only about 4.5 million people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx_pQ0bR7HA&feature=related
New Zealanders have no fewer than 3 scales to work in, 9 mil (1:34) on 32 mm track, S (1:64) on 16.5 mm track and NZ120 (TT scale on 9mm track)
Partial list of NZ suppliers: http://www.nzmrg.org.nz/index.php?option=com_webpage&id=133Pa
http://www.nzmrg.org.nz/index.php?option=com_webpage&id=118
New Zealand Model Railway Guild: http://www.nzmrg.org.nz/
Queensland Railways in Australia (42 in gauge):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6L56g1yFs0&feature=related
Models are available in both HO (gauged for either 12 mm - 42" or 16.5 mm) and a couple in S(n3 1/2).
http://www.blackdiamondmodels.com.au/ho.html
http://www.wuiskepromotions.com.au/ (note: diesels are shell only, need to get chassis from http://w
My problem with narrow gauge (HOn3) has been track - specifically switches. A while back I was thinking of modeling the White Pass and Yukon Route. The MDC HOn3 steamers can be kitbashed to pass for a number of the older White Pass engines, and rolling stock can be found or kitbashed, but track switches, unless you want to handlay your track, are as rare as hen’s teeth!
The ones I was looking at were Shinohara code 70 #6s and every place I looked said they had at least a 6 month back order time.
-George
Dave, it is actually HOe, with the “e” standing for “eng”, meaning narrow in German.
Modeling narrow gauge should really be a modeler´s heaven. Tight curves, short trains, limited facilities, make-do operation, all those things which are a no-no to the “big” guys are prototypical with a typical narrow gauge branch line.
The only thing that keeps me from going down the narrow gauge route is sourcing and cost. HOn3 track is virtually unavailable in Germany and the cost for locos and rolling stock, as I posted earlier, forbidding.The same goes for modeling German prototype narrow gauge lines. Although availability of track is no issue, locos are way beyond reach in terms of price. Bemo has quite a few nice Saxonian prototype steamers in their line of products, but at prices of up to $ 500 for a kit or up to $ 1,000 for the R-T-R version they are not within my budget.
I like modern-era mainline modeling, and I like N scale, so narrow gauge isn’t on my list.
But if I were to model narrow gauge, and had the time, space and money, it would ONLY be HOn3 traction, as I would love to make a Pacific Electric/Los Angeles Railway traction operation; and the latter ran exclusively in narrow gauge (despite various models of LARy Yellow Cars in standard-gauge HO.
The shortage of turnouts has been real in the past. Both Shinohara and ME produce turnouts in batch mode, with often more than a year between HOn3 runs. Right now, there is plenty of Shinohara stock, and ME produced a batch of their new turnouts with plastic ties.
There have always been lesser-known but high quality turnout producers such as Railway Engineering and Trout Creek Engineering (BK products). During the most recent Shinohara shortage a year or so ago, they were joined by folks making turnouts using the Fast Tracks jigs - Litco and Cream City are examples.
hope this helps
Fred W
I have only one problem. My Westport Terminal RR is set in 1975 - 1980, too modern for narrow gauge. And - the layout has all tracks laid.
But I’ve solved this problem with H0n3 modules. And got this way the Silver Valley RR.
Wolfgang
The wonders of the internet helps on finding turnouts, as long as you dont mind buying online. I love what Blackstone is doing, but wish they would do some variety, espicaly C&S moguls. I have built a couple of the MDC 2-8-0’s but wasnt happy with the results. I prefer brass, followed by whatever some of the new companies are producing. I am in the same boat on On30, love the trains and size, lack the space for the buildings and scenery to do the layout the way I would want to. Bachmann doesnt have a real good track record on thier geared engines in any scale right now, but thier rod engines seem to be fine. If they would do a C&S 2-8-0 to pair up with thier 2-6-0 then I might be really tempted to go that route instead of HOn3. The advant of On30 really gave narrow gauge modeling a shot in the arm, followed by what Blackstone and MMI did/doing in HOn3 and On30. I love On3 as well, but the high cost of what I want for an engine deters me from that scale, unless someone has a line on a C&S 2-6-0/2-8-0, D&RGW C-16 or a SPng ten wheeler. Of coarse there is always Sn3, Railmaster exports makes some nice kits of most of the smaller narrow gauge rod engines. That scale as aways appealed to me as well, espicialy looking at all the PBL ads in the Narrow Gauge Gazette. For now I am working to sell a few of my models and see what I can turn up in narrow gauge to purchase. Mike