Yes, it is. It has been done many times. it is called computerized block control. there is one “plug and play” type product on the market that does it. There are several guys who will build you custom microprocessor systems, or you can roll y
I have a very poor excuse for a railroad. More of a glorified loop maybe 9-1/2 by 17. Being by myself, I can really only run one train at a time. But being a typical model rail, I have more than one loco on the tracks here and there. Since nothing is set in stone, I don’t want a central control panel. I don’t want to deal with toggle switches to have locos other than the one I’m running stand still. And I don’t want to deal with power routing turnouts.
I have decoders controlling the few turnouts I have. Although some day I may have local push button panels to throw those turnouts, right now I can control them with the hand controller. And until that day comes, I don’t need a central control panel that may need to be modified if I make a change.
I don’t have a simplified DCC system. I have the 5 amp PowerPro NCE command station. This is because the PowerCab system that would probably have done all the same things was not available when I jumped in. I do not regret the purchase.
There, those are my reasons, and I didn’t mention sound.
Hopefully this will help you understand.
To be slightly more accurate, my system cuts the number of switches in half, but more importantly they are not toggles or rotary switches in a fixed location - they are pushbuttons that are redundantly repeated at both ends of each track section and on the dispacters panel.
It is a kind of semi automation - you pick a track section and turnout route and the power is routed automaticly as needed.
Remember - it all fully intergrated - detection, signaling, CTC, turnout routing. they all work together - each turnout has relay, that relay directs power, operates signal circuits through the interlocking and powers frogs. Signals do not go green and power is not avaialbe unless a clear route is selected.
No clear route through the interlocking creates dead buffer sections that sop trains from overrunning their signal - Automatic Train Control.
Detection indicator lights show where your train and other trains are on local tower and dispatcher panels.
Sheldon
My disadvantage, if that’s what it is, is that I never operated block control DC, so I don’t have a lot of familiarity with it.
That’s great if you ha
[quote user=“richhotrain”]
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
richhotrain
Is it possible to automate block control, so that it is unnecessary to flip switches when entering/exiting blocks?
Yes, it is. It has been done many times. it is called coputerized block control. there is one “plug and play” type product on the market that does it. There are several guys who will build you custom microprocessor systems, or you can roll your own.
I considered it as well and decided I did not need that either.
Rich, in the explaination of my control system do you understand that if a dispatcher is on duty the operators do not have to flip any switches, push any buttons, they just run the train?
And, even without the dispatcher, in walk around mode, they is no big complex control panel to “operate”. As you walk around the layout, there are small tower panels at interlockings - the same kind of thing most DCC layouts have for turnout control. You set the turnout route through the interlocking by pushing one button, even if it is a complex route through two, three, four or more turnouts, and then you push one additiona button to assign your cab to the desired track section on the other side of the interlocking. Two buttons.
How many buttons do you have to push to throw a turnout on a Digitrax throttle? It is more than two.
After pushing those two buttons, you trains has green signals until the next interlocking along the line.
Sheldon
I agree.Those Aristo throttles is sweet…I have used them on a friends layout and really like the feel and of course the locomotive control…
I still have my CM20 and a 30 year old MRC Tech II that still works…
My “poor man’s DCC” is a MRC Tech 6 with its matching hand held throttle.
A few more quick points in response to a several posts all related to this one.
Yes, the Aristo throttles provide nice control, and have momentum, if desired. The push button operation of them is more like a real loco than a knob, and even in the minimum momentum setting there is a natural, gental ramp up/ramp down in the speed control.
Doughless, despite how this conversation has dirfted, I for one have always acknowledged the lone operator with no need for blocks. I know a modeler here in our area with a layout concept similar to yours, and like us, he uses the Aristo throttle on his basement filling industrial switching layout - with no seperate blocks, just a few kill zones to store locos.
Sheldon
I do I do. I have 25 blocks on my layout and over 50 locos (not all used at once). Since I usually operate alone I don’t need DCC. The blocks I will use are printed on my train order cards so I know exactly which switches to throw on the control panels. I only have permission to occupy those tracks so it works out perfect.
I could leave a train orbiting the layout while I do some local switching but I’d rather let it be in suspended animation so I can just concentrate on one train at a time. As for sound, I play some music and try to block out the noise.
Well, the Flint Hills Northern runs on straight DC; always has, always will. While I’d love to have DCC, I also have over 60 locos, so the cost alone of converting would be prohibitive. And no, I can’t run all of the locos at once. More like 2 or 3 at the outside - Usually 1, but sometimes 2.
Sheldon,
My layout is centered around a double mainline, each mainline measuring 168 feet, so there is plenty of room to operate multiple trains. Running two trains at the same time at different speeds on each mainline is no big deal, even for a lone wolf. At the same time, I can perform switching operations between my downtown passenger station and coach yard.
From what I understand about DC, I cannot do that. If I could, that would be great. I have no axe to grind with DC users. I could care less about who uses DC and who uses DCC other than to be fascinated with both systems and all kinds of layouts.
doctorwayne, for example, has one of the most beautiful layouts that I have ever seen. He operates in DC, never runs more than one train at a time. He walks around the layout following that train. That is fine by me. Sounds pretty cool, and I am still waiting for an invite to visit Wayne and see his layout in operation.
What I care about is multiple train operation on multiple tracks. Why not? That’s how it works on the prototype. The
[quote user=“richhotrain”]
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
OK Rich, you answered my next question. I was going to ask how you control turnouts. I do remember your trackplan from earlier postings.
So my operation as a lone operator is not much different than yours, I walk around with my wireless throttle and set turnout routes on local panels with a push of one button as well - and then I push one more button, on that same local panel, to assign the next track section. Complex power routing through the interlocking, as well as signal indications are all set automaticly by those two actions.
Here is where we differ - I have no desire to keep track of two or more trains on the same route/track at the same time when operating by myself - I have operated DCC layouts where guys try to do that - no thank you.
Sheldon,
My layout is centered around a double mainline, each mainline measuring 168 feet, so there is plenty of room to operate multiple trains. Running two trains at the same time at different speeds on each mainline is no big deal, even for a lone wolf. At the same time, I can perform switching operations between my downtown passenger station and coach yard.
From what I understand about DC, I cannot do that. If I could, that would be great. I have no axe to grind with DC users. I could care less about who uses DC and who uses DCC other than to be fascinated with both systems and all kinds of layouts.
doctorwayne, for example, has one of the most beautiful layouts that I have ever seen. He operates in DC, never runs more than one train at a time. He walks around the layout following that train. That is fine by me. Sound
Wireless hand held throttles are nice…too late in game for me to switch, tethered hand held’s are fine for me. With a 3 cab block control system, I can run a East bound main train, a west bound main train on the double track mainline and with the 3 cab, jump on any main I want in either direction and go to a siding with a train and do my switching of industries while the mains are still running without having to stop them to do so. My grandkids can do it…that is why my track plan is laid out on the panel, so You know where the blocks are. Simple to learn if just starting out, by just turning off the block before the one you are in, so the one or two mains running do not run into Your train. You have exactly so many minutes to get off the mains before the trains come by…that’s the fun part…the kid’s enjoy it.
Take Care! [:D]
Frank
I am still using DC. Its not like I am anti technology. I am anti technology for the sake of technology. At work we are currently up to 50 processors per vehicle. While this means job security, it becomes a maintenance burden for owners after the warranty expires. We have slowly conditioned people to want all these features and to pay for them.
So when it comes to a hobby, I am skeptical that I need to change a perfectly working layout just to say I did.
700 for decoders and 200 for a controller is way more than i want to spend. And i have a suspicion a better less costly system may be on the horizon.
I never understood that argument. A GOOD starter 3 Amp DCC system is $160. DCC decoders are $25 each. That’s less then the cost of some RTR cars.
That said you will never have to worry about non-availability DC equipment. All DCC equiped products these days are DC backwards compatible. It makes no sense for manufacturers to remove this backwards compatibility because it restricts their market. It’s practically a freebee to have backwards compatibility in there.
And the more one learns about signaling, the more one will understand that it works fine on DCC, too.
DC is fine, DCC is fine. Either can work well with signals.
This is posted often, but is false. As you yourself note, the central dispatcher does not have control over the speed of individual trains in real life. Individual engineers do. And most signal systems don’t work by “block control”, even defining it broadly and charitably.
For the majority of railroad miles in the US, there were no signals at all. And of the signaled miles, a relatively low percentage were CTC.
DC is fine, DCC is fine. But there is no benefit to anyone in incorrect statements.
Yes, in fact the signal system I use will work with DCC, I never implied other wise.
Fact is that adding a signal system is a complex and expensive part of model railroading with or without DCC. DCC surely does not make signaling any easier.
Sheldon
It is alway easy to talk about low “starter costs”. I’m not a beginner in this hobby, here is what I would need to convert my model railroad to DCC:
120 decoders - 120 x $25 = $3,000
8 wireless throttles - 8 x $125 = $1,000
several boosters - at whatever cost
and of course the base station and some reversers.
I’m not intertested in going “backwards” in the shope of my layout to get the few extra features DCC would add. Especially considering I do not like sound in the small scales, I have no need for “ditch lights”, all my MU’d and double headed locos run just fine on DC, and my operational scheme does not include helper service.
I have no fears about non-availablity of DC equipment, I remove decoders, and sometimes sound decoders from locos all the time to make them compatable with my PWM Aristo Train Engineer throttles.
Sheldon
Yes but for those of us modeling a CTC controlled railroad, signaling and block control can work hand in hand.
Sheldon
I hope MRC comes out with a Wireless DC pack that works like the MRC 9500.