I have one brass engine, an Ajin NW-5 with a very nice drive.
If somebody made one in plastic I’d sell the brass one like a shot.
I want a model that looks good and runs well, and I don’t care if it’s made of brass, zamac, plastic, or earwax.
[quote user=“ATLANTIC CENTRAL”]
PRR8259
To address the OP question posed by Howard Zane:
I’ve been brass shopping hard and comparing prices of what is actually available to be purchased.
Right now, it appears that one could answer “it depends”.
There are a lot of lesser valued or lesser priced brass models available for sale in the marketplace. However, they may require regearing, remotoring and a paint job, plus many folks would want DCC. Till all that work is completed nowadays, that would easily add $500 or more to the price of any of them, and I can see that some buyers won’t want to buy a $195 or $250 engine to then put $500 more into it.&n
Sheldon–
You may have missed a few key points:
I actually have completely disassembled, stripped and painted a brass model. It was an Overland Models L&HR/CR Alco C-420. The end result was…not good at all. Jolute at Diesel Consignment took if off my hands, and I basically swore that I would never do that kind of destruction to another fine brass model again. Unfortunately, he had difficulty selling it. It wasn’t totally terrible, but it wasn’t good either.
I don’t pay people to do stuff just because I’m loaded and I have all kinds of money to give away, but because I lack the TIME/skills/patience/tools/equipment to be able to do that kind of work to the standards I feel the models deserve. I can disassemble, tune drives, and complete some minor repair tasks, but I prefer to stop there, especially as the price point increases.
I like to think that I have more respect for the art of the models themselves to NOT ruin them with the quality of work that I would be able to do and have time to do.
It’s not a matter of the “circle” of people that I belong to or aspire to belong to, because I’m emotionally needy. This is not some great “IN” club or fraternity that won’t accept you if you don’t own brass. If durable models could be made from a dead yak, to paraphrase other comments Howard made elsewhere, I’d buy the durable yak-bone model.
However, I’ve dabbled enough, actually, in plastic, to be underwhelmed by it, and I don’t need a massive fleet of anything, I only need a few, a relative handful actually.
At least the brass models are not made of gold (it wouldn’t hold up so well to handling).
I probably would prefer stainless steel more, but it would be very difficult to achieve the same level of details.
John
Howard,
I would not disagree about the durability of brass vs other products. And I will not disagree about potential cost effectiveness if you run them that many hours.
And, I too have my share of retail experiance from those days. From 1970 to 1973 I worked at the Depot Hobby Shop in Severna Park and did the repairs there. I helped the owners there build a diorama of John Brown’s Raid when they moved their business to Harpers Ferry.
And from 1974 to 1980 I worked at Glen Burnie Hobby World and managed the train department there.
From 1973 into the mid 80’s I was an active member at the Severna Park Model Railroad Club, and have visited your layout several times - thank you for that experiance.
As I have explained before, I likely will not sell my trains, at least not me personally while I am still upright.
I am a freelance/protolance guy, my steam locos are mostly kit bashed and lettered ATLANTIC CENTRAL, except for models of the three prototype roads I model, C&O, B&O and WESTERN MARYLAND.
The two brass locos I have now sport plastic tenders and have been otherwise kitbashed for my needs - I suspect their value has been compromized…
Understand also that my personal perspective is not from someone entering the hobby, or growing their fleet much at this point. I have most of what I need and want, and I’m not a collector or accumulator.
I only buy models that fit the operational roster desires of the layout.
I have never owned a model of a Big Boy, or an NYC Hudson, or a (fill in a long list of “famous” locos).
My fleet is boring, multiple copies of a short list to create a realistic roster for the ATLANTIC CENTRAL. Example - I have nine Spectrum USRA Heavy Mountains, I can’t even think about the work in finding nine brass ones…let alone the cost. Even at bargin prices it would likely be 4 or 5 times what I have invested, and I bet I don’t wear out those nine I have in
Well John, I do have the TIME (mostly, and expect to have more soon)/skills/patience/tools/equipment to paint and decal my own models.
And to repair or modifiy them as needed.
I’m not debating the quality of brass, I am saying it does not represent a good VALUE for ME in most cases.
A big part of my interest in model trains is operation and freelance modeling.
I would not be happy with a one each collection of well detailed prototype models from various roads.
My goals include operating 30 staged trains on a 1500 sq ft layout. I NEED 140 powered units for that goal.
I have NO INTEREST in buying and selling trains as a second hobby. I have trains I built at age 13 in 1970. I have nearly every train I ever bought from that age to now.
I respect the craftsmanship of brass, I just don’t need to own any of it just for that reason.
I see the model train hobby, and the layout, from a big picture perspective. The layout is the whole, the locos, cars, scenery, are just the parts. They are not the focus.
Sheldon
Well, Howard’s original question was related to brass model value (or price) now and potential value in the future. What might happen versus what might not. I do not think the sky is falling. Yes, a number of earlier hobbyists or collectors have passed from the active scene, but I think there will be still be some in the future who value the models. There are certain models I’d like to have, that are becoming very hard to find anywhere at any price. So somebody is holding on to them.
We just lost a major importer, basically since this thread begain (I believe). Along with them we may be losing the premier current builder…THE best quality builder, generally speaking, building any brass model trains today. People over on other forums are concerned about what model(s) if made might allow the builder to continue. That is the debate elsewhere.
For some of us it is all about the models.
John
So John,
Howard asked a question, and got an overwhelming “no” from most of those who responed on this forum, which is a a very diverse and crosssectional group of modelers.
Only a few expressed any desire to even buy brass, new releases or old stuff.
That should tell you something.
The masses in this hobby cannot, or will not spend that kind of money given the other choices in the market place.
And some are willing to buy some brass BECAUSE the prices are depressed.
Without getting into the whole “who is a real model railroader” thing, you need to accept that those of us who build models, or kit bash models, don’t hold brass in the same vaulted position as you do.
And those who are happy with the other RTR options in the market place likewise see no need to spend $1200 or $2500 on something they can buy for $500 or $700, despite any deminishing return "be
The only time I have spent over $100 on an engine are for two brass models I own, a Katsumi two cylinder shay and a nakamura (westside import), both for around $200.
As I have said before, I have a roster of about 140 powered units necessary to protect the schedules on the new ATLANTIC CENTRAL. Set in 1954 the roster is a mix of steam and first generation diesels.
Most of the motive power has been purchased in the last 20 years, and consists mainly of Spectrum/Bachmann (mostly steam), Proto (steam and diesel), BLI (just a few pieces of steam), Genesis (F units), Intermountain (F units) and a few odds and ends, Rivarossi, Mantua, even one IHC, and two heavily kit bashed brass Pacifics. Also some remotored and geared Athearn RDC’s…
No sound, no DCC. The mix is about 50 steam locos and the rest diesel or self propelled passenger.
My dollar cost average price for each powered unit is right around $100 each.
Most are kit bashed in at least some small way, some in a big way. Some needed a little work to run to my standards, a few needed a lot of work (two pieces from BLI).
The highest price paid for any one powered loco, about $350. The highest price paid for a “set” of diesels that run together as one loco, just under $500 for a four unit lashup.
They all run good and look good.
Sheldon
I think we’ve beaten this one to death and then some. Let’s play with our brass and plastic…