Your Opinion Please

Trains.com General Discussion (Trains.com)
1

This could turn out to be a controversial topic. If so, please be considerate of other opinions that might differ from your own. Yes, we do live in a land of free speech, but MIND YOUR MANNERS.

Now the story so you can understand the question.

Today as I was leaving to go to the grocery store I heard a train horn. It wasn’t the normal bland horn commonly used today – something like a three chime. It sounded more like a 5 or 7 chime horn so I wanted to see what loco this horn was mounted on. I could hear the horn and knew if I didn’t get somewhere that I could see it that I would miss it. The normal places I might go would make me miss the engine. I live close enough to the tracks to hear the horn, engines, and rumble of the cars but not close enought (because of hills, trees, houses) to see the tracks or trains. There is a dead end road that I thought I might drive down and see the train. The road dead ends just before the tracks but because of houses and trees on this road and by it I could only see a small part of the loco, not really enought to get a good look. (Now we start getting to the meat of the question.) There is a cemetery next to the road and next to the tracks. At this time all I was thinking about was getting a look at the loco. I couldn’t see it from the road so I drove into the cemetary to try to find a spot where I could see it. Real close to the tracks was an area about 40 yards long
where you could see the tracks and a train if one were there. It was a nice quiet spot (no jokes here) and you could see the trains very well from here. It was a higher spot (just a little) with a gentle slope down to the tracks. All in all a pretty place. I thought to myself that it would make a nice spot to see and photograph trains. I did however notice that many shots might include the grave markers that were not flush with the ground. Now I bet some of you are getting the same thoughts I suddenly had. "Would this really be an appropriate spot from which

2

Jim,

I haven’t seen any published or nonpublished train photos taken from cemetaries, but you might want to try taking night shots there. Halloween is coming up soon[:D].

You might catch something “interesting”[:0].

Seriously, if the names on the headstones don’t show up in the picture, in respect for the deceased, I guess it would be okay.

Take care[:)]

Russell

3

I don’t think it would be inappropriate to take a picture from that location in most instances. Of course, if there were a burial going on or someone visiting a grave in the immediate area, I would probably think twice. And I think I’d go there only if I knew a train was likely to be there soon; I wouldn’t set up camp in the cemetery and wait for hours.

If I recall correctly, the graveyard where my brother (and dozens of my more distant relatives) is buried is very near the tracks. If I saw someone there taking a picture of a train (or whatever) it wouldn’t bother me in the least, unless he/she were interfering with access to the graves, or littering, or something along those lines.

4

I am kinda surprised so far by the comments. I figured people would be more against taking pictures there. Maybe I am just too old fashioned.

5

Here’s what i think Jim:
It’s okay to take pictures there, as long as you try and keep the headstones out of the picture. As Nora said, i wouldn’t take phtos if someone else is there. It just wouldn’t look right.
BTW, we were on the same thread same time again 3rd time today.

6

I can see your point. I tend to agree with what the others have said though. I’m a Christian and do have great respect for the dead. However, I don’t think that there is anything particularily disrespectful about taking pictures at this sight. In the book “Caboose” by Mike Schafer there is a photo which shows a very old cemetary (one of the markers has a death date of 1880) and in the background you see the end of a frieght train with a caboose on Vermont’s Lamoille Valley Railroad. It’s at the beginning of the chapter “The Caboose Falls From Grace”, which covers the final years of cabooses. This is a very symbolic photo and stirs up a lot of emotions and I don’t consider it offensive. I would try to not include any of the gravesites in your photos, though. As long as you don’t disturb anything, I don’t see a problem with it.

7

I would have no problem with taking train pictures from a cemetery, or even showing headstones if it made a nice picture.

However, you might want to check at the cemetery office to see what they might say. The cemetery’s owners might not feel the same way.

If one does take pictures in a cemetery, whether of trains, or tombstones, or nature, common sense and common decency are absolutely necessary. Do not disturb mourners or burial parties, do not interfere with groundskeepers, do not take recognizable photographs of people without their permission, no littering, no loud talking, no booze. Obey regulations if you know them. If asked to leave, or explain yourself, do so politely. If there are religious presecriptions (say, wearing a hat in a Jewish cemetery, and not going into a Jewish cemetery on Saturday or on Holy Days), observe them.

The Catholic Archdiocese of Chicago posts signs in its cemeteries informing the visitor that the cemetery is an extension of the church, and that one should conduct oneself accordingly. Good policy for any human burial ground.

Oh, and one last thing - if your religious beliefs and conscience permit, say a prayer for those buried in the cemetery you visit.

8

Two more posts and both are still in a positive tone. I can’t believe not one person has felt it was inappropriate. Maybe in the next few days some will post a “not appropriate” comment. I am not trying to be disrespectful but am awed that all of the post are basically “it’s ok” postings. Every poster so far knows me through the forums and private emails and knows my character and general disposition and know I am not trying to be disrespectful of them. I still am awed over it all. Maybe some of the older forum members will post “don’t take pics there” but we shall see.

9

AltonFan

Thanks for your post. You snuck in on me while I was typing my previous post. But that is certainly ok.

Forgive me if anyone is offended here but let me say
Congradulations on your second star. I usually put up a few smiley faces when this happens but considering the topic won’t do so here.

The other posters and I carry on private emails and I welcome you to do the same. I currently am trying to send out pics of trains, planes, and assorted other things. If you would like to be on my mailing list just let me know and I will send you some pics.

Once again thanks for your post. I wish you many more.

10

Greetings Alex.

11

Congradulations, Jim, you missed me again[}:)][:D]
As for negative comments, you should have taken this topic to trains.com forums- audience there tends to be more aggressive.
But if you need a negative comment, i can help[}:)] joking[:o)]

12

It is almost funny how we can be in the same thread at the same time but yet when I post the “Hi” I J U S T miss you.

13

Hi Jim,
Man,is this weird or not!

I just came from a cemetary tonight.

I stop by there some nights to unwind, the guy who has access to it knows me because our main line from UPs Booth yard to Manchester yard runs right along the front and crosses the road at the front gate, and we have to stop and line a switch there and wait for a signal.

He lives across the road from it, and is always on his porch, watching the trains and the world go by and we chat, smoke and drink coffee, shoot the bull.

This is the oldest cemetary in Houston, Harrisburg Cemetary, dating from early 1800, it contains some of the fist citizens of Houston.

Harrisburg was a small town on the banks of the Buffalo Bayou, now the Houston Ship Channel, and one time capitol of Texas!

Its a small cemetary, no more that 200 yards on any side, and has a small clearing in a grove of oak trees near the gate, with a single, huge old oak at the center of the clearing.
Eons ago, someone built a bench around this tree, and people sit there in the afternoon all the time, watching the ships pass, or watching the trains go by.

One day before work, I drove out there, wanting to see what the attraction was of sitting there among the graves.

Turned out, it really was a pleasent experience, and after a little thought, the reason for the little parks popularity became apparent.

A lot of the folks worked nearby, and they had been gathering there for years to eat lunch, feed the squirrels, watch the trains and ships, and enjoy a little human interaction in a peaceful setting.

In fact, most had come to view the place as “their” cemetary, and wished it was still a active one.
Of course, it had been closed for bruial forever, and no grave sites were left, but many of the regulars still wanted to be buried there, so their friends could come and still visit them at lunch.
A couple of ladies had even gotten a map of the gra

14

ED [:p]

I am not really sure if your post was a yea or nea. But it really doesn’t matter because you expressed your opinion and THAT is exactly what I am after. Maybe 25 years ago it might have been received more with a nea. I bet if we went back to WWII time it really would be a nea. But more opinions are welcome no matter which side they choose.

15

I dont see what the problem is, as long as your not standing on the headstones to get a good shot. I have seen people using cemetaries for PICNICS! because its the only green park-like area near where they live. L.A. has a derth of green park space so people make do and no one complains. I dont see what the objection would be if the cemetery operators do not have an objection, just dont camp out on top of someones uncle and you should be fine.

Most peoples objections seem to be about “respect for the dead” well the dead are just that, dead! They arent going to complain, its the families that will complain and if some do then depending on thier reasons maybe thats when to stop or change positions. I can hardly see what anyone would be upset about though, very few people actually visit cemetaries regularly alyway so the chances of someone crying is pretty remote. Besides some cemetaries are nicer park spaces than the local parks.

I would approach the operators, explain what you are doing, state that you will not disturb any flowers or the like, and see what happens. If they can see that your just a harmless railnut, and not some godless hollagin bent on kicking over tombstones, they will probably say OK.

Well thats just my two-cents.

P.S. If their are any restless spirits in there, they would probably be happy to have company, given the lack of visitation to most cemetaries, just a random thought.

16

Bergie

As someone who is “in the business” you thoughts here would be welcome. Any of the staffers who would like to comment would also be welcome.

17

My opinoin, yes and no. Yes because you have the right and your not disturbing any graves, but no because its a grave yard and you must be respectful. But there where no grave within 40 yd, so you can just not ALL the time. Understand, clear as mud?
[xx(]

18

???

Glad to see that Public Education is paying off for Texas[:D], Four readings and I think I am beginning to understand this sentance[;)]

Sorry Brian, Just joking with you. I was a bit of an English expert in college, I got to proof-read everyone elses papers for the price of a couple Margarita’s.[:p]

19

I’ve got a long responce here so I’ll label each section for those of you who just skim answers (like me)[:D][;)][:o)]:

MY OPINION
There is nothing wrong with including cemeteries in train photography or otherwise, whether or not it includes gave markers with or without the inscriptions visible.

Why do I think this way? I’m a very legal minded person. I have my degree in Criminal Justice and I don’t see anything illegal about it. Certainly you’ve seen cemeteries the subject of calendars and in movie scenes and TV shows? It’s a public place unless posted otherwise. Cemeteries are holy ground and part of the church and everyone is welcome in church. I doubt if you’re using a point and click camera aimed at a moving train that you’ll get a name in the shot, and even if it’s one of those big headstones with just the last name it’s still just that: a last name. As long as you don’t desecrate the cemetery or use the photos of the gravestones in an immoral or degrading manner and obey cemetery rules it should be fine. I think cemeteries make interesting subjects for photos, with or with out trains. It gives the viewer a distraction, it fills the picture up, it gives it character, it makes it unique. I don’t think it was any different 25, 50, or even 150 years ago. People have been photographing cemeteries for as long as there have been cameras. “If you think you found something new, you don’t know your history” -Harry S Truman.

AN EXAMPLE
Photographing headstones is no big deal either. When an uncle of mine past away about 10 years ago my mother and grandmother (his sister) decorated the headstone with flowers and such and took a picture of it. My grandma entered it in a photo exhibit at the county fair and lo and behold it won a ribbon prize. It got a lot of comments and compliments.

…AND A SPOOOOOOKY STORY [;)]
I have a few pictures of trains with a cemetery in the foreground, though I don’t think I’ve got around

20

Bryan

Today is Tuesday (I bet you really don’t need a reminder), E N J O Y. [;)]
Email me after you get a chance to see it all. Let me know what you think.

Also would you clear up the mud a little. I am kinda like vsmith and just not getting it all very well. [8D]