Amtrak has had over 150 route changes since it began on May 1st, 1971. One of the most unstable routes has been across Indiana between Chicago and Cincinnati. This is currently the western end of the Cardinal.
When Amtrak began there were two routes from Chicago to Cincinnati. The James Whitcomb Riley was a Penn Central train running on a former New York Central route using Illinois Central from Chicago to Kankakee and then PC through Lafayette, Indianapolis and Greensburg. The other route was over the former Pennsylvania through Logansport which split to go through Kokomo or Indianapolis.
Amtrak used the Penn Central James Whitcomb Riley and C&O George Washington names until 1977 when the train became the Cardinal.
Amtrak naturally chose the 307 mile Penn Central line used by the Riley. Unfortunately the Penn Central was falling apart and this was a north-south route in an east-west system. The first route change was on January 23, 1972 onto the PRR route through Logansport. Using former PRR track north of Indianapolis and NYC south to Cincinnati shortened the route from 307 miles to 303. Some trains ran over another former PRR route between Logansport and Anderson and then over former NYC from Anderson to Indianapolis making the route 313 miles. The route south of Indianapolis changed on October 16, 1973 from the Greensburg NYC line to the former PRR through Richmond,making the route 335 or 345 miles. Another detour route was available here over the former NYC between Indianapolis and Richmond through Anderson, adding another 18 miles. On August 1, 1974 Amtrak had to move over to Chesapeake and Ohio trackage when the FRA ordered Penn Central’s line closed. The C&O ran through Muncie on a 287 mile line which missed Indianapolis. The next change came on June 12, 1977 when Baltimore and Ohio trackage between Chicago and Wellsboro and former Pere Marquette to La Crosse replaced a piece of C&O which was being abandonded. C&O then abandonded their line over Chevoit Hill north of Cincinnati
I understand the name change to Cardinal was to reflect the states traveled by the train. The Cardinal is the state bird of each state.
High Speed on the current route?[(-D][(-D][(-D]
The big problem is getting out of the Ohio River/Whitewater River/Great Miami River /Mill Creek Vallies…The best two lines to do that are gone (C&O and old Big Four) because they had grade and curve issues that were never upgraded.
I worked the local out of Hawthorne Yard and we went right by Beech Grove and on south to Shelbyville where the trackage rights go to the shortline you speak of. The track would need a major upgrade as it is still bolted rail and the current speed limit is 25mph, and I can think of a lot areas that should be lower than that! Also, it is also dark territory, as all the signals have been ripped out. I’m all for high speed rail, but this would be a very costly project.
Great little history there, Nanaimo, you do yourself proud!
…Nanaimo: Thanks for that great rundown on the routes into Chicago, etc…I live in Muncie that the CSX passed through and that you mentioned in your post. That route that was abandoned about 1994 is now a beautiful paved bike and walking trail and the wife and I along with the granddaughter were on it 4 days this past week. We have 30 plus miles of it in service now and more is being added. The depot that Amtrak used for the Cardinal stop at that time was a wretched run down building but beautiful railroad design and has now been renovated to the tune of $800,000 plus and it’s appearance is now back to it’s original build specs…Including the real tile roof. It is the Trail Head for our Cardinal Greenway Trail and it has offices of the trail in it and a meeting room and a small railroad display of artifacts and a snacks area…There was a small grade heading north out of Muncie as it sure is noticable on the bike. I used to watch the Amtrak Cardinal make it’s stop here…The NS parallels it for a few hundred feet at the depot and it is separated by an iron fence…There is another railroad bridge {to cross White River}, parallel to the Trail {abandoned about 30 years ago}, that served the Pennsylvania RR…a branch to Mathews. That bridge {a two unit thru truss}, is still intact and looks like it will stay there for many more years…
Nathan,
This high speed rail proposal seems to be what a bunch of experts think should be done, without regard to finding the funding. I don’t believe you can run a 110 mph train on a busy freight line. If this proposal was to happen, I think all freight would be at night. They call for the Chicago to Cleveland line to go through Ft.Wayne using Chicago, Ft.Wayne and Eastern to the west and the Maumee and Western to Toledo.
Modelcar,
There was 150 miles of the C&O torn up from Richmond to North Judson. Is it all going to be a trail ?
Indiana has 448 miles of current Amtrak routes and there must be over 1,000 miles of former routes.
In places like Muncie and Anderson, any traces of the Indiana Railroad (the interurban, not the current operation) left?
Next time someone wants to say something slighting about a ROW-turned-hiking trail, please see Modelcar’s post above. [^]
Two things:
(1) As it turns our, I went out looking at the old NYC line that goes through Shelbyville this weekend. Didn’t get a train, unfortunately. The line is remarkably straight though, and a good portion of the CSX track was welded rail. I wish CIND would operate the line all the way to Indy; I think they could accomplish more that way.
(2) I know I have said this more than once before, but I don’t understand why everyone has to go the high speed rail route. Give me a 60-70 mph train that runs on time (and at reasonable hours, speaking of the Cardinal), and I think you will get a lot more bang for your buck. Sure, highspeed rail might get more passengers, but not more passengers per dollar.
Gabe
Gabe…Gotta agree with you on that. To get folks back to the rails, “High Efficiency/High Service,” would give a lot more bang for the buck than the 30 kabillion need to start from scratch. To me it would seem a worthwhile investment to have depots, red caps, food, reliability, etc. But what do I know? I want a parlor car, they want sex-appeal.
Mitch
Nanaimo: The Cinn. to near Chicago ex. CSX line ROW is proposed to be built into a trail for the most part as I understand it…Unfortunately, just about 7 miles or so north of Muncie, at Gaston, a group of land owners balked and wouldn’t let it continue {for about 10 miles}, so the trail must detour around it on county roads. But it continues farther north around Upton and Marion, etc…The long range plan is to have our Trail join in on the east - west continous trail across the nation. To the south of us around Richmond, In. it is my understanding some of it has been completed too…I have not seen that part.
Our Trail is widely used and is popular. I spoke to two young fellows on Friday passing through at the “Depot” they had come from West Va. and were headed to Iowa {on bikes}, and I asked them how our Trail compares to others and they indicated our is really great.
South of us towards Richmond there is another 7 miles or so under construction…so the process continues. The general concensus here in Muncie is that it is a great plus for our area…and it preserves the right away…
Dave…Yes, to answer your question of the Indiana Interurban remnants…There are areas between here {Muncie}, and Anderson one can pick out the ROW. Some of the Car Barn buildings are still intact {with other businesses in them}, here in Muncie…but I can’t tell which may have been local street car facilities against being associated with the Interurban system…Believe the Interurban system was shut down about early 1941…Hope I’m getting that right…And there are many locations one can still see the Interurban remnants heading out of Muncie in different directions…but I don’t know if they were all Indiana Int. systems…On a side bar, in western Muncie there is an intersection of streets that has a length of rails across the intersection still at the surface and visible…but of course that was part of the street car system. That system, I believe stopped running about 1931…The large train shed and terminal of the transit system in downtown Muncie was still intact when I first came to Muncie in 1957 and it was demolished about 1958 or so to build a Pennys department store…Tracks were visible for years behind that structure but have been covered with street paving for some time now…Believe the pennys building was constructed about 1960. That building still exists but it is State offices now…Muncie was a vast hub of interurban activity in many directions in the past…plus the street car system in the city. Actually if one searches around on the internet one can find quite a few pictures of what I’ve been discussing above. One more thing…west of us at Daleville there is a structure right along Rt. 32, a brick building that was part of the Interurban system. Looks typical of a building of that era and for that purpose. Other things in it now too. It is right along side the ex. Conrail line, now CSX double track main east - west line thru here.
Modelcar,
It is good to see you guys can follow our good ideas. I just wish we had more of them for you guys to follow. We have followed your ideas many times, most of them good ones.
www.tctrail.ca/en/home.php
I think our trail is almost complete, and it uses a lot of former RR ROW. It was a real loss when that fire took out most of the wooden bridges in the Kettle Valley.
I want to get down to Washigton State someday and cross the State on the trail on the former Milwaukee ROW.
In Muncie you had rail lines going in 9 directions, with Interurbans following 5 of them. I would guess the Interurban ROWs are all private property now.
I fondly remember the Cardinal from years gone by.
I developed a friendship with the operator at Wellsboro in 1977 and would go there and spend the day. If I recall correctly, the Cardinal (eastbound) would pass thru town around noon, making the loop from the B&O to the C&O line.
Sadly, much has changed:
- CPL signals are gone.
- The operator and cabin are gone.
- The line north to Benton Harbor is gone.
- The loop track is gone.
- A shortline operates on the old C&O, hauling grain from elevators in North Judson, Union Mills, and LaCrosse.
I sure wish I had spent a little more time on the old C&O lines. At the time, the lack of trains (only about 10 per day) up thru Wellsboro, made me search for the action.
ed
Nanaimo: You have done your homework on the systems radiating out from Muncie here…and of course they are all gone now for years. And I believe all those ROW’s are on mostly private property. They were too far removed to consider any trail building on them in recent years. All kinds of buildings on them, etc…
Presently we have quite a few active rail lines heading out in various directions: NS…North NS…South NS…North west and NS…North east CSX…Double track, east and west. Sure wish we had some passenger traffic thru here…
The CSX line was former Conrail. And before that it was NYC, and pre Amtrak that line had passenger traffic…More so in former years. 3 - 4 trains a day.
I imagine the Milwaukee line would be an interesting one out west to explore…Have seen several pictures of the abandoned ROW out in the barren west territories.
While we’re on the subject:
http://www.stb.dot.gov/filings/all.nsf/6084f194b67ca1c4852567d9005751dc/8fb9326220edcabc85257049005348f2/$FILE/214394.pdf
CSX line going to an Edwardsville, IN owner (Who is?..not Iron Horse Resources or the folks running Terminal RR of StL)
…MC: Can add nothing to the info on the web site you supplied…Note northern terminus is just on south side of Richmond, In. and that’s about 40 miles southeas of us here in Muncie. Just do not have any input to add to your note.