Does anyone know anything about this railroad? I found pictures of their locomotives recently, and don’t know anything about it. I am told it is an ICG spinoff of an old Alton line? As this is the very heart of my railfanning interest, I am very disappointed in myself for not knowing anything about this.
Which Alton line did it take? I know the SP bought the St. Louis - Chicago Alton line from the IC and Gateway Western bought the Chicago - Kansas City Alton spinoff of the IC. So what does that leave?
I feel like I did last week when I thought an SD-45 was an SD-40-2, who knew there were SD-45 without flared ends? I should have payed more attention to the short porch though.
Actually it was the Alton line later operated by the SP. I don’t have all of the details right here, but ICG sold it to the CM&W, which eventually went bankrupt.
Gabe, congrats on the stars. All I can tell you is that the last time I rode the St. Louis -KC train we were discussing last week - and this was probably 15 years ago - the Amtrak timetable identified the railraod as the CM&W.
I knew several ex-ICG management types that went to the CM&W when it was spun off. They never had a chance. The bank(s) that financed the deal really took a bath.
I was at a conference on short line financing when I tried to politely ask a banker how such a mistake could occur - he replied “You mean, how could anybody be that stupid?” At a time when Latin America was defaulting on loans left and right, he said the deal was known in banking circles as “Brazil North”.
The ICG retained the line south to the Joliet refineries. Basically, that was the only real freight on the Chicago-St. Louis line. The CM&W was left to try to make money running intermodal trains between those two points. At less than 300 miles this was a very dubious proposition.
The Kansas City line had some freight, but it also still had 90 pound rail and had been beaten into the ground as the ICG ran unit coal trains over the 90 pound rail.
I guess the lack of freight on the line harks back to a guy named Blackstone who headed the Alton for years. (source: “The Chicago & Alton Railroad” by Gene V. Glendinning) Blackstone didn’t like interchange traffic. He concentrated the railroad on local business. This worked until the trucks took the local business because of its short length of haul.
The Alton Route then passed rapidly among owners, Union Pacific, B&O, GM&O, ICG, CM&W. The Chicago-St. Louis line is now back with the UP and once again, they don’t seem to want it.
In addition to keeping title to the line to just south of Joliet Union Depot, ICG gouged Venango River Corp on the price of the line. ICG also kept title to most of the trackage in the Metro East area.
Some additional fallout from the bankruptcy of Chicago, Missouri & Western was the bankruptcy of CSS&SB under Venango River ownership.
Gabe:
It was under CM&W auspices that the shops (Ex-GM&O) in Bloomington burned to the ground under some rather shady *circumstances. The Venango bunch, a mix of ICG and ATSF operating types, paid almost zero attention to the maintenance of the railroad, they just ran trains. (The undoing of many a shortline, you have to plow money back into the plant) When it finally dawned on them what they had bought into, it was too late and the plant was failing faster than they could raise income. The loss of several key bridges to washouts just sped-up the inevitable. Following the CMR&W debacle, key parts of the Venango bunch got involved in other misfortunes on a smaller scale.
The plant they bought was a mess from day 1. Track components were anything but standard and there was no reserve inventory/ spare parts for even simple maintenance and repair. IC had thrown every oddball and secondhand piece of trackwork it could find out on the old GM&O to keep its core lines in better condition and easier to maintain. SP and later UP have thrown bucketloads of cash at this line to undo the damage and they are far from complete.
Rather odd that most of the railroad’s records went up in flames with the shops.
All that went up in flames was pld Alton and GM&O records. Everything else written above is pretty much true. I have some old HO scale logos if anyone is interested. They’re dry transfers. They wanted me to paint 100 HO GP 38s to give to customers. I painted 40.
The CM&W’s logo, appearing like that of the CA&E was no coincidence. That was me…
There has been alot of investment in this line by UP, along with Illinois Department of Transportation (IDOT) and others. UP has been upgrading the right of way and signals, in preparation for high speed passenger service between Chicago and St Louis. It has been a test bed for Positive Train Control. They even ran a short test (10 miles) just north of Bloomington IL using Amtrack equipment at speeds of 110 mph. High speed service on this line has not become a reality due to a lack of funding for trainsets.
Its been interesting to see the resources, and I assume money, that has been put into the line. I always wondered if this was the best use of UP’s time, money, and resources at a time when these things were needed in other parts of their system. I’m guessing that the contrubutions from others (IDOT, et all), and the opportunity to get experience with PTC technology made it worthwhile.
As for traffic today on the line… Amtracks including the Texas Eagle, locals, interchange with other railroads, and some run through by other railroads.
In the days before UP there was more traffic and greater variety. When the SP owned it this was their only route to Chicago. At one time there were tachonite trains on their way running between Minnesota and Utah. When UP came along much of the non-local traffic was diverted to other UP routes.
I also have heard that UP keeps the line as a contingency, in case they have problems in other part of their system and need to divert trains over our line. Its always interesting to see the volume and mix of trains change when this happens.
From a historical perspective, the Chicago & ALton had a significant yard and shops in town. In the days of steam, it is said that they had never built a new locomotive BUT they had the equiptment and labor to repair any part on one.
The yard remains, but most of the shop have been demolished.
that answers some of my questions about this line…chicago to st. louie. i was curious as to why there were 4 crossing gates at each crossing instead of the normal 2. it looks like a pretty high tech little piece of railroad nowadays.
Mitch: From one that did a considerable amount of RCRA work in the yard at Bloomington and needed Venango and predecessor data to appease EPA…some of those records were more than “just old GM&O/Aton records”.[:D]
This was (is) in your backyard! The old GM&O was a good route from Chicago to St. Louis, running several passenger trains. In the 50’s ran the 284 miles in 5 hours 10 minutes, not bad…an average of 55mph with six stops total.
Back in the 90’s when I travelled Northern Illinois frequently I would stay at Bloomington and go explore the yards and shop. There was a neat station (bilevel) in town and a cabin which protected the NS crossing.
Today the CPL signals are slowly disappearing. The Ridgely Tower in Springfield still remains in operation. Next time you are back in the area, you should go check it out.
I still recall the Bloomington local would often have DRGW units. What a treat.
I agree with others, not much business on line.
However, I have noticed the branchline up to Jacksonville has service. Dont know the industry in town, but there is some switching going on.
From what I know, the auto plant is an exclusive NS show. And that plant is down on its knees. Mitsubishi (SP?) is in the tank. Cut production at the plant from two to one shift per day. They used to build Dodge and Mitsubishi there. Then Dodge pulled out. Then Mitsubishi cut production in half.
As for high speed passenger, the trains go right though the heart of cities like Springfield and Pontiac. Over, under, around; but not through. Cost a bundle for new routes around and Illinois certainly doesn’t have the money - they can’t even fund their state employees’ pension plans.
I don’t see a need for HST in the Midwest. I’d settle for train service in the Midwest. One train a day between Minneapolis and Chicago. Three trains a day between Chicago and St. Louis. No trains to Green Bay. No trains to Des Moines. Come on guys. Get serious or go away.
Mitsubishi Plant is on the old NKP/ NS served only…very little (if any) interchange at Bloomington. Old Bloomington GM&O yard was to be a Mitsubishi auto loadout and then the economy went south. Some of the yard now a grain loadout. Other parts slated for industrial redevelopment. One part is now a Children’s Museum. Illinois DOT and the locals put intermodal center at (ab)Normal to the north of the Bloomington depot. Rather amusing to watch tranportation engineers (Highway engineers in drag) mess-up the concept of intermodal with state and local monies. [V][V][V]
Woo. I was unaware of that. I remember a lot of stuff going between the Chicago office and Michigan City. The Venango Group rented a lavish set of suites and floors on Dearborn Street and I was under the impression all relevant documents ended up there.
Mitch
I well remember the wine red and light red GM&O Chicago - St. Louis trains, some handling through MP-TP cars for Texas. Heavyweight six-wheel truck slightly modernized (outside) diners with excellent chicken dinners and good food in general. Three trains each way duirng the day plus the overnight Owl with sleeper, which came off when the Pullman left the business. But I believe the three day trains continiued until Amtrak and were the only Chicago - St. Louis trains at the time. Earlier, the Wabash and the Illinois Central itself (Green Diamond) gave competition. Power was always E-7’s, and I d on’t remember any E-8’s. There were also some Joliet - Chicago commuter trains but nothing like the intensive service on the Roack Island. At that time the MP used the GM&O as its connection to Chicago for freight, so there was business, but I am not sure that continued after the GM&O merged into the IC.
I believe that after the Mail was discontinued in '70,the only GM&O trains left were the Limited and the Abe Lincoln until Amtrak.
I remember a lot of E8s and 9s on the Green Diamond, sometimes one of the 6s. Usually in an A-B lashup.
At the inception of Amtrak the GM&O was the only service between Chicago and St Louis. Trains on the N&W (Wabash) had been cut to Decatur, and the IC’s Green Diamond had been cut to Springfield and became the Governor’s Special in '68.