I noticed a photo in a book that shows a shot of the 4-tracks wide line , somewhere on the curve. It seems to show several crossovers(?) to change from one track to another. Why there, on the hill? Would it be tofacilitate passing? But, on the hill?
If you mean at Horseshoe in the Altoona area, there used to be crossovers at Kittanning Point on the East end of the Curve where the present day signal bridge is… back when 2 and then 3 tracks were in place and perhaps in the early 4 track days too)…where a Station and Watering point was at one time…Nowadays, the nearest crossovers are at MG, 2 miles West of Horseshoe, and Slope, just West of downtown Altoona…
There were actually more crossovers on the East Slope around Horseshoe Curve back then than today…I just opened up my copy of ‘Triumph 1 Altoona to Picairn’ and the first interlocking starting at Altoona was ALTO, followed by ‘SLOPE’, GY, then KN at Kittanning Point, followed by IA on the extreme West end of the Curve, which was later replaced by MG a bit further West…followed by AG at approximately MP 245. Next was BENNY , and then SF on the East side of the Gallitzin Tunnels (not to be confused with SO-South Fork on the other side of the Summit…These were all reduced over time to present day ALTO, SLOPE, and MG on the East Slope…Crossovers provided flexibility for faster movements to run around slower trains…and in event of a derailment, stall, or a train going into emergency, it gave more options to keep the line fluid. The West Slope, from Gallitzin to Johnstown was similarly ‘loaded’ with interlockings, of which many were eliminated and or remoted to the Dispatcher’s desk. Nowadays, working from Conemaugh Eastward, you have C Interlocking, AO, SO at South Fork, MO at Cresson, and AR and UN in Gallitzin.
This all makes sense from an operational standpoint. I’m wondering why have them on a hill & curve such as this? Maybe, I’m not seeing it correctly, and all the line in that area is just as hilly and curvey?
Without seeing the picture that you are looking at, I am assuming that the picture is on the East end of the Curve with some sort of building in the pic…If so, coming West toward the Curve.the track is somewhat straight for a short distance until it gets to KN at the East end of the Curve…At one time, there was also a spur that ran off along the hillside up to a town called Coupon, along with a spur to run coalhoppers up to dump coal into Engines …KN was also a watering point for steamers…which was the original purpose of the reservoirs in the valley below the Curve…to supply water to Steamers at KN …Another spur ran off the West end of the Curve up to another mining town called Glen White…This spur paralleled what is now Glen White Road, which takes you up from Horseshoe Curve toward Gallitzin…Much of the interlockings were/are on more tangent sections of track in this area, but the line itself has plenty of twists and curves…One interesting note is that the average gradient through the Horseshoe Curve itself is somewhat less than the entire 12 mile East Slope grade (which is around 2%) but the lesser gradient in the Curve is offset by the increased rolling resistance through the Curve…
Obtain Trains 08/04 issue & all your questions will be answered re the horseshoe curve[:)]
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Originally posted by Murphy Siding
I noticed a photo in a book that shows a shot of the 4-tracks wide line , somewhere
The East Slope is quite an interesting stretch of Railroad…There are ATV trails and old fire roads that parallel the Railroad pretty much from Scotch Run all the way to Gallitzin…ATV’ers use them predominantly, but someone that likes hiking can get some interesting vantage points off railroad property…For those familiar with the newer stretch of 4 lane Rte 22 that leads up the Mountain from the Duncansville area through the Cresson area and on to Pittsburgh, there is a stretch East of Gallitzin where the Railroad can be seen wrapping along the mountainside between the Allegrippus and Gallitzin…It can be quite interesting to see a stack train wrapped along the curves and bends, as seen from Rte 22 , especially when the leaves are down…
While Altoona is under discussion, I visited the overhead walkway to the station
for the first time recently. Are all those parallel curves visible to the west of the walk bridge to derail a runaway? Is this site considered an “Interlocking”? Grateful in advance to all replies. Railroadangel
I never received a clear answer to the curves question at that location when I asked about that elsewhere in the past…I will pose this question to some Altoona natives to see if I can find out the answer once and for all…As far as the question of it being an interlocking…just beyond the 17th Street Roadbridge, which is just West of the enclosed pedestrian walkway, is Alto Tower, one of the few last active manned Interlocking Towers in Pennsylvania. This Tower controls the interlocking at ALTO, and just West at SLOPE…It also controls interlockings at WORKS, HOMER,and ANTIS, which are East of ALTO…The Cove Secondary diverges South from ALTO and leads to Duncansville for interchange with the Everett Railroad, and was also a route to the now closed Hollidaysburg Carshops…
I must confess as new to this hobby. I’m not exactly sure what an INTERLOCKING is. For example if a NS train wants to enter Newberry Yard
in Williamsport I hear the train people call someone on my scanner to align the swtiches to cross the riverbridge into the Lycoming Valley RR yard. But does a set of turnouts or switches make up an INTERLOCKING or is it much more involved.
The simple answer: it is like an intersection for cars. It is where tracks actually cross each other, unlike crossovers or turnouts. (I’m sure the resident pros will correct me and I am well aware of what an interlocking is, but, Angle said that they were new to this and I wanted to start off simple and let it build from there.) There are two types of interlockings, Manual and Automatic. Manual are controlled by the dispatcher and Automatic are governed by track conditions and if necessary are released by a series of steps performed by the crew.
Interlocking prevents the setting up of conflicting routes.
As a simple example take the end of a siding. If a train is lined up for the main then the interlocking will prevent both the switch from being moved and the sidiing signal from being changed from red.
Interlocking is for more than just diamonds, it’s everywhere.
Dave…The Cove Secondary…that leads to Duncansville, would that be the “old” line to the route around Muleshoe Curve and up and over the mountain after passing through it’s tunnel…?
Yes…The Cove Secondary was a route down to the ‘New Portage’ Line as well as a way to the Hollidaysburg Carshops…Before the state built the New Portage Line, the previous Inclined plane line was still in place…or original Portage Railroad,One of the last sections of the PRR’s main line to be completed in the area, was the section between Altoona and Johnstown…For awhile, the PRR used this Portage Line to get over the Mountain until the section around Horseshoe Curve was completed in the mid 1850’s…
…Ok, thought that was the way it was, including the brief use by the PRR until the Horseshoe line opened in 1854. Believe originally, the Horseshoe line was just 2 tracks…
Yes…I was just looking at the Triumph 1 Book…The Branch line, now known as the Cove Secondary was opened on Sept 11th, 1850 to connect with the Portage Line…The New Portage was constructed around Muleshoe Curve and was officially opened in July 1855, basically providing 2 competing routes over the Mountain…The New Portage Tunnel that crests the grade just South of the Gallitzin/Allegheny Tunnels was originally part of the State owned New Portage…The PRR bought out the whole Portage Line and connected it with theirs between Gallitzin and Hollidaysburg, which is why Track 1 separates so far from Tracks 2 and 3 when going through Gallitzin… The PRR had to somehow connect to a Tunnel that was 1500 feet South of their own line.
OK, I’ve been trying to find exactly which book had the photo in question. It’s obvious I have too many books, or too little memory.[:)] Being a flatlander, in a state that doesn’t even have double track, a busy 4 lane rail line on a curve/hill does sound like fun. Once I find the 08/04 issue of Trains Magazine, I’m sure it will all make sense. The lane change would be used to pass a stalled train perhaps. My pre-conceived idea, was that a heavy train stopped at the bottom of the hill on track 1,2,3or 4, and helpers were attatched to shove it up the hill. Was/were stalled trains on the hill common? A post above mentions a tunout for runaways. How would that work on 3or4 lanes wide? Have there been runaways and derailments on the curve? Thanks to all-you make it interesting.
…I’m not the expert but that area is in general near my “home” area…Yes, there have been accidents in the form of run a ways…but I’m not familiar with any “run a way” tracks on Horseshoe Curve hill as we know them…Remember during WWII the Red Arrow passenger train had some trouble…believe a passenger car disconnected from the train and went down the “hill” part way until it derailed…and produced fatilities…I have been at the “Curve” personally when an up hill {west bound}, freight just about stalled {even heard him talking about the situation on my scanner}, but eventually he continued to move {at a snails pace}, and made it up the hill…The grade up and around the hill / curve is about 1.8% with the exception right on the “Curve”, believe it is 1.45% but the curve adds to the difficulity of dragging on the up grade…Have a video that indicates there use to be a setup of loud horns to warn an east bound train if he is starting down the “hill” too fast…The horns would blare out if his speed was excessive warning him to get his speed reduced to within limits to safely make it down the grade to Altoona area…about 12 miles…
It is an interesting experience to stand at the observation area at the “Curve” and see and hear a heavy freight coming down {east}, with dynamics screaming, brakes {sometimes smoking}, and flanges squealling…all under “normal” conditions for the hill…It is interesting mountain railroading to experience.
PS: By run a way track…I mean such as is present on the “hill” at Saluda, NC…
There have been some runaways on the hill…the latest happened sometime in the 1970’s when an Eastbound Conrail work train loaded with welded rail ran away and ran down the hill at speeds estimated in excess to 50 or even 60 mph before safely gliding to a stop in Altoona…the low center of gravity on the train contributed to it staying on the rails…Stalls are still common on t
Speaking of the Red Arrow Wreck that Modelcar mentions, it was a steam powered Eastbound Passenger Train that ran away after it crested the Summit at Gallitzin at MP 248…It ran away and reached the first sharp right hand curve at Bennington at MP246 and ended up leaving the tracks and tumbled down the enbankment to the left at Bennington Curve…This happened in 1947. The system of horns was set up on the steep Eastbound Grade out of the New Portage Tunnel which was at a higher elevation than the tracks going through the Gallitzin and Allegheny Tunnels…In order for Track 1and2 (1 nowadays) to get down to the same elevation as the other tracks, it descended a steep grade called ‘The Slide’…which required special train handling and speed restrictions…old 'aaoogah style horns once were used years ago when a train ran over the proper speeds down ‘the slide’…Certain trains nowadays still have a 10-12 mph restriction down the Slide, which levels out to the milder grade of the other tracks at MP 247…