I’m hoping that some experienced layout builders on this forum can give me some advice. What material should I use for a table top for a quiet running layout. My grandsons and I are building an around-the-walls table for our O gauge trains. I am planning on using a grid-type of frame with 3/8" construction grade plywood for a table top surface. I am also considering putting blue styrofoam on top of the plywood. I do not have easy access to Homasote. I understand that the track (tubular type) should be screwed only into the styrofoam, not the plywood. Will this give me a reasonably quiet layout? Another option is to follow the technique shown in CTT about using carpet underlay foam under the track and fastening the track with cable ties. Has anyone tried this?
Homasote is what I use and I think it would work a bit better than styrofoam because the screws will stay more secure. I understand its not easy for you to get but I think it works best. Many modelers use cork roadbed that is available by a variety of manufacturers. Midwest Products is a popular choice. http://www.midwestproducts.com/. I think that it would look great especially since you are using tubular track. Add some rubber road ties under your track get a more realistic look as well another way of quieting the noise. They are availbale here: http://www.grahamstrains.com/store/product.php?productid=3037&cat=12&page=2 . Others have tried zip-tying their track to the plywood and eliminating screws all together. CTT did an article about this a few years ago. There are a variety of methods you can try but most importanly it is what fits your layout, track and of course your budget. [:)]
If the plywood is secured to the grid work under it and the grid work is reasonably spaced (14"-16" on center), the table top is less likely to act like a drum head and amplify the sound. Styrofoam is better than nothing, carpet padding (older foam rubber style or new premium padding does a better job than the recyled shreded stuff) is probably better than sytrofoam . The track type also has an effect on noise. Tubular is noiser than solid rail. Built in plastic roadbed looks nice but tends to act as a noise amplifier.
The quietest “layout” I’ve ever “not heard” was a temp layout using Atlas solid rail section track (cable ties were used to hold the sections of track together). This was sitting on a wall to wall carpet that consisted of a medium pile plush carpet. This obviously doesn’t look “real” (even green carpet of this type would be a stretch) but it was unbelievably quiet. If the trains were running at slower speeds all you heard was the ocassional clickty clack at the rail joints.
If you use FasTrack or RealTrax (with the track clips), you don’t need to screw down the layout at all. The downside of FasTrack is it is quite loud if you run engines fast. If you run modern engines with cruise control at low to moderate speeds, FasTrack is reasonably quiet. I have my FasTrack layout on a plywood substruture with a heavy green felt-like material cover. It is loud when I run postwar trains but it is quiet when I run modern trains at the slower speeds they are capable of.
It sounds like you and your grandsons will have a great time with your layout.
The zip ties will work with foam as well and the little 4" ties fit through the holes in tinplate track. There is another method of holding the track to foam if you are using the 2" variety. Find the longest nail that will fit through the holes in the ties with the largest head to suit your tastes but that will not touch the plywood. Dip the nail in Elmers or Wood glue, any glue of this type will work, and push it through the hole into the foam. There are nails out there that have little barbs or serrated rings on them that work best, but dry wall nails work too. Their heads are a little big but they’re cheap and black. Anyway, once the glue dries the track doesn’t move. The thinner foam will not work with this application.
Personally I’d get a bit thicker plywood. More mass has to help. I ended up with a noisy layout using 7/16" plywood on top of an open grid with the cross braces at about 16" -18" on center. I used homosote over the plywood too, but it still was noisy. I finally determined that a lot of the sound was coming right down from the underside of the table and bouncing around on the indoor/outdoor carpet on the floor. I got some 2’ by 4’ ceiling tiles from Lowe’s and flexible caulk adhesive and proceeded to cover the underside of the table with those tiles. It took a lot of effort and made my knees sore but the result was worth it sound wise plus it lightened things up a bit under the table. Really every space is acoustically unique so you may not have much trouble. I think less nails/screws the better for securing track. I use Gargraves and kept all these connections to a minimum. No need to go overboard with that.
I believe 3/8 to be too thin for this appplication. In regard to less noise, I understand the not easy to get homosote issue. I am not going to use it either for that same reason. I decided to go a different direction- I trail and errored a couple of things before laying down track. I am using 3/4 plywood with black 3/8 sheathing on top for noise reduction. I bought a sheet of blue styro but am not going to use it. I don’t like the fact that screws don’t stay in it and grab without using glue or something else. I don’t want multiple steps to put a screw in. I also see that it dents and can chip fairly easily-minor but true nonetheless. The sheathing is quiet and holds a screw very well. I can also purchase the plywood as well as the sheathing readily at Lowe’s. Sheathing about $9.00 for a 4x8 sheet Plywood about 19.00-20.00 a sheet. Not the cheapest table top;however, once it’s down I don’t have to look back and I’d hate to do all the trackwork,etc. and then be dissatified with the table top itself. Good luck.
Not knowing what your budget looks like but what we have used is MDF covered with Pergo underlayment, adhered with vinyl wallpaper paste, then cork roadbed with Atlas track. If you were to use soundboard on top of the MDF that would reduce the expense by eliminating the Pergo underlayment and even the cork. The MDF is a better sound deadener, re speaker cabinets, than plywood and the soundboard is better than homasote as well as being much cheaper. The soundboard can be a bit messy when making your cuts though and it will require a very liberal coat of a latex primer prior to starting to laydown track and scenery. If the budget will allow I would go with the Atlas track, with the plastic ties as opposed to metal it gives you another layer of sound reduction. Just my 2*
Thanks for all of your good feedback. It has helped clear things up for me.
I have decided to go with 1/2" plywood as a table top for greater stiffness instead of the 3/8" that I originally planned. I will probably use a 1x4 grid uinderneath 16" on center which should make a pretty rigid table…3/4" plywood is just too heavy to work with. I also found some 1/2" black sheathing (KB Board) at my local lumber yard (as per Amos’s suggestion) which is a stiff, paper-based product and holds screws well. I will not cover the entire table top with it but instead will cut roadbed strips from it.
I guess thats one reason why my layout is loud, because the framework is spaced out way too far apart, and my plywood is just quarter inch thick. So it does act like a drumhead especially with loco’s with magnatraction.
My past experience, albeit in HO, installing ballast has caused me to hold back from adding it because of a concern about noise. I used diluted white glue way back when and the result was a much noisier layout after the ballast was applied. Now the ballast was not rubber but the stone type, from Highball I think. How do you attach the Scenic Express ballast? Any special way? Would matte media be better?
I used carpeting with thick carpert padding between the plywood and carpet. I have this on my layout and its incredibly quiet. With tubular track just lightly tighten the screws, even better use plastic zip ties to secure the track. CTT had an article in 1999 about this.
I’m hoping that some experienced layout builders on this forum can give me some advice. What material should I use for a table top for a quiet running layout. My grandsons and I are building an around-the-walls table for our O gauge trains. I am planning on using a grid-type of frame with 3/8" construction grade plywood for a table top surface. I am also considering putting blue styrofoam on top of the plywood. I do not have easy access to Homasote. I understand that the track (tubular type) should be screwed only into the styrofoam, not the plywood. Will this give me a reasonably quiet layout? Another option is to follow the technique shown in CTT about using carpet underlay foam under the track and fastening the track with cable ties. Has anyone tried this?
asch - I don’t know where the don’t screw the tubular to the plywood came from…, but securing it (either with screws or plastic tie-downs) will deaden some sound. And screwing the platform onto the framework will also deaden the sound, the more screws, the quieter. I use #6 square-drive screws (the appearance is somewhat similar to the bolts you’ll see on the mainline), and I have JOHNSON’s rubber roadbed (tubular track fits into it).
I’m also concerned about keeping my layout as quiet as possible, and had a crazy idea…
I’m building a 3x11 layout using 1/2" pink foam on top of 1/2" plywood supported by a 1x4 and 1x3 frame. The spacing of the frame members is about 16in x 18in. I’ll be using plain ol’ Lionel 0-31 track and vinylbed or flexbed.
Now for the crazy idea part… What if I put a layer of plastic bubble wrap in between the plywood and the pink foam? Can’t think of much better vibration isolation that putting an air gap under the whole thing…