[#welcome] to the American Freedom Train discussion area! Lets talk about any of the American Freedom Trains, the locomotives, 4449, 1, 610, and others, any memorabilia you have and lots more.
This is a topic about the American Freedom Train ONLY! So don’t go
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I saw it twice in, I am pretty sure, 1975. It came through Milwaukee WI and a friend and I chased it from St Francis to Butler – essentially from the SE corner of Milwaukee to the NW corner. There were several good chances to see (and hear) the 4449 have to work a little bit up some grades, particularly east of Mitchell Yard on the CNW. Unfortunately all I had then was a Brownie camera. It left for Green Bay but we did not chase it further (and always regretted that we did not).
Many days later I saw it leave Madison WI for the Twin Cities. It left Madison around 1 am and we chased it all night, including when it slipped on some wet leaves somewhere near the Dells or Portage. That would have made a great recording. By the time it got to LaCrosse WI the engine , basically painted white, was filthy from having gone through the tunnel in Tunnel City. That morning we paced it along the high bluffs of the Mississippi River – part of a huge convoy of crazed railfans driving like maniacs. Since of our group I had the worst camera I was made the designated driver (it is not fun driving an unfamiliar car, which I recall as a huge station wagon) in madcap railfan convoy driving through small towns where townfolk and police alike were standing around open mouthed at the insane driving. The only time I have ever drivin like that again – was through the very same towns just a couple of years ago chasing the 261. We stopped chasing the Freedom Train when it pulled into Hastings MN with its neat depot and lift bridge (both of which are stil there by the way)
Anyway the 4449 was and is a great locomotive. The interior of the cab is great – the chrome plated handles and the large Southern Pacific logo in the wood floor.
On our way back to Madison my railfan buddies wanted to stop at each town that still had a depot. So I think we got back to Madison in the very late afternoon, after I had been up for something like 36 straight hours with no sleep at all. And the day after that I had
I say let’s do it again. Thirty years have passed since the last one, so it’s time for another. And this time it should be a permanent operation, forever going from city to city reminding all of us of our nation’s heritage. BTW, the first Freedom Train, in 1948, was pulled by an Alco PA. What could be a more perfect use for a restored PA than a new Freedom Train?
I agree.
We need another Freedom Train.
I was born way after it ended.
My mom was 9 years old when it was in operation in 1975.
There is a problem of getting locomotives which can pull it (only 4449 is still operational), the documents, and extremely rare items which were on the train, the train cars, the cash, the volunteers, the big railroads agreeing to this, and lots of other things.
The anniversary of 9/11 will come soon, and we can have the train for that,
4449’s 60th birthday will come in March (built in March 1941),
Southern Pacific merged into Union Pacific 10 years ago.
I have the All Aboard America book and it says…
General Motors, Kraft foods, Pepsi, and Prudential Insurance sponsored.
The train cost $17.5 Million Dollars.
Consist: 10 exhibit cars, 2 showcase cars, 2 generator cars, 3 flatcars, 1 sotorage car, 1 press car, 1 office car, 1 lounge car, 1 staff diner, 1 Pullman Sleeper, 1 auxilary tender, and 1 security car.
510 original historical documents, art, and memorabilia.
12 Exact replicas and Facsimiles.
Traveled: 24,612 miles.
21 month tour.
Trackside crouds: Estimated 30 million.
Attendance to train: about 7 million.
Largest attendance: 22,729 in Portland, Maine.
Cities: 138
Began: April 1st, 1975
Ended: December 31st, 1976
Locomotives: Souuthern Pacific GS-4 Type #4449, Reading T-1 Type #2101, Texas & Pacific Type #610.
The American Freedom Train was established as a non-profit, non-political, public service organization. Supported by private donations, ticket and concessions revenues and at no time recived Federal funding.
Most of the cars are still around and only 1 of the 3 locomotives are still operating.
If this isn’t enough inormation, get the book, All Aboard America book.
Maybe if we talk about this enough, maybe someone will see it and maybe, just maybe, we can have a 2006-2007 American Freedom Train!
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I saw the train in Salt Lake City and was disappointed by the historical contents. However, I was fascinated by 4449. On the trip into SLC, there had been some difficulty with 4449’s throttle. While we were there, they pulled the throttle dome open and started adjusting. Just about then, one of the safety valves tripped and the engineer got a nasty burn.
I also saw the Preamble Express go through Blackfoot Idaho - but I do not remember any details.
dd
I’m pleased to see the discussion of the AFT. As its Founder/Chairman and one of its loco. engineers I too enjoy reliving the project and the many adventures it created. My primary hope when putting the project together was that it would help the American people focus on the many great things that our country had accomplished during the 200 years of this unique experiment called democracy, and take their minds at least for a while off Watergate, Viet-Nam etc. And also to show the school kids some of the incredible courage their ancestors had in settling this land. I can testify from having stood at the exit ramp and talking to thousands of school kids as they exited the train that we accomplished that mission with the overwhelming majority of the approx. 3.5 million school kids who visited the train.
I agree that the time is coming very soon to do a repeat! Stay tuned!
Ross Rowland
Thanks a bunch guys!
Any more replies?
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Well…
Locomotives that can pull it?
Humpth… once we get that Cotten Belt 819 back up and running Im sure we can try to have a crack at it. That one does have the beef needed for it. But suspect water regional issues and other behind the scenes problems may prevent it from running.
…Use an assembly of nicely restored E 8’s and gain durability and reliability for the train…People would support it just as much. Costs would be less…I would like to see a first class train of this nature put together again for the purpose of touring the country…Mr. Rowland, start making noise…People recognize your name and talent for such projects. I believe it would be good for the country again. Establish a new 21th century theme for the project. I would like our country to have something else to think about in place of war…{The when will it end one in Iraq for starters}.
In 1948 about 3000 8th graders were packed in the parking area near the Greensboro, NC, Railroad Depot. We were waiting to tour The American Freedom Train when it stopped with the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution aboard. I remember getting the hair of a strange girl in my mouth because we were packed so tightly. I also remember having to rush through the train with only about 15 seconds to see each item displayed. For some reason no one else in Greensboro seems to remembers the Freedom Train at all. I’m glad to hear that the Train actually existed and i didn’t just dream it.
I saw the engine/train several times. A group of us drove down to Iowa and paced the engine on the CB&Q as it worked it’s way to Chicago. The engine got clipped on the left side by a truck that backed up too far at a grain elevator somewhere around Red Oak, IA. Only some sheet metal on the skirting was damaged.
I later followed the train from Red Wing to Mpls on the Milwaukee Road. The engine was very dirty after going through the tunnel at Tunnel City, WI. The train stalled on the Milwaukee Road’s ‘Short Line Hill’ and the Mpls Transfer’s set of F’s had to drop down the grade and pull it up to Snelling Ave. The Mpls Fire Department provided hoses/pumper and railfans helped wash down the engine in Minnehaha Park that afternoon.
The train was pulled backwards to St Paul so that it was pointed the correct direction to leave for Fargo, ND via the ex-GN mainline. BN provided Bicentenial SD40-2 #1867(Gen Custer/Chief Crazy Horse) on the point as a helper. I remember pacing the train west to Wilmar and watching the ‘pilot’ engineer just leaning on the arm rest, soaking up experience. It returned to St Paul a week later via the ex-NP mainline, running very fast(it had to keep up with the ‘preferred route’ merchandise trains). It left on the C&NW ‘Omaha’ line, and I remember folks in these rural areas waiting along the tracks as the train passed at about 20-25 mph.
Jim Bernier
I saw it with the Reading engine in Detroit when I lived there. Later that year I saw it with the GS4 on an army base in Georgia when traveling from Florida.
My favorite AFT story involves somewhere out west where a diesel was tied on the head end to drag it over a mountain pass. The GS4 uses #6 oil which is almost tar and the diesel uses diesel fuel. Somehow the two trucks hooked up to the wrong engines and shortly after starting up the grade the diesel started to clog up. It instantly dawned on someone in the diesel what had happened and he radioed back to the 4449 to pour the oil to it because they were about to die. Numerous photographers were waiting at the exit end of a tunnel at the summit and disgustedly talking about how they weren’t going to get an action shot of 4449 working out of the tunnel. Imagine their surprise when 4449 shoved a dead diesel out of the tunnel with the pops lifted and forty years of soot from the tunnel roof sent skyward from the steam plume. By the way, it never faltered once and speed increased all the way. I understand that nearly everyone just stood there with their mouths open and very few pictures were gotten.
#4449
#4449 was built by the Lima Locomotive Works in El Paso Texas in May of 1941. Her Lima Locomotive Works Construction number was 7187. She has 80" drivers and a maximum boiler pressure of 300 pounds p.s.i. She was placed into service on May 30, 1941 at El Paso. Her last revenue run on the Southern Pacific occurred on September 24, 1956. She was stored serviceable but retired by the S.P. at Bakersfield, California on October 2, 1957. #4449 was delivered to the City of Portland, Oregon for a park display on October 24, 1958. On December 14, 1974 she was removed from Portland’s Oaks Park to the BN roundhouse where she underwent a total rebuilding for the purpose of pulling the American Freedom Tain. She underwent a hydrostatic boiler test on March 15, 1975. On April 21, 1975 a fire was lit for the first time in her fire box since 1956. She passed her first steam-up test on the same day when the needle in her boiler pressure gauge reached 300 pounds, p.s.i. Her first mainline test move (car hop + crew car on the BN) happened on May 8, 1975. Her first mainline tonnage test since being rebuilt by the BN occurred on May 12, 1975 when she pulled a freight between Vancouver and Wishram, Washington. Her departure for Chicago to join the American Freedom Train via ESPEE’s Shasta and Sierra routes, on June 20, 1975. Her milage completed since restoration to service to August 29, 1976 = 18,000 miles. Her milage estimate total upon returning home to Portland = 28,000 miles +. A stellar performance for a museum piece.
During the length of time that #4449 sat in Oaks Park in Portland
I hope everyone that read this post also bought the very fine Hallmark Lionel Ornaments they produced in 2007. They are very fine Zscale models! I have seen some talented modelers that did some brass carsides to change the sleeper into baggage & coaches. by swapping the wheelsets, they can be made to run on Zscale track. AmericanZ Scale produces a PA in Z scale. There are other modelers that have found a way to power the Hallmark PA.
What would be cool is to bring the models back for display the rest of the year!
I saw American Freedom Train in 1975 when it came to Minneapolis. My primary purpose was to see 4449 in action. I took my one year old along and watched it as it crossed grade crossings paralleling E 25th Street. There were a few railfans with cameras and a Milwaukee Road official with a bullhorn to keep us off the tracks. I would have thought that more people would have been there.I suppose most were at the short line bridge. I was hoping for a plume of smoke from 4449 but there was none.
Mom plucked me out of elementary school in September of '76 (or was it '77) to go tour the AFT as it was on display at the Martin Marietta Plant in Middle River. I remember the huge line waiting to step inside and ride the people mover past all the Smithsonian-like displays. I still have the multi-sided postcard, and a mug from the event.
Being a kid during the Bicentennial was pretty cool.
Do you remember…the Bicentennial quarters?
fire hydrants painted up as Uncle Sam, Washington, Lincoln?
US postage stamps from 72 - 77 marking Revolutionary scenes?
Schoolhouse Rock “I’m just a bill, yes I’m only a bill…”?
The stagecoaches traveling across America?
tpatrick; This oldhide saw the first Freedom Train in 1948 at Dayton Ohio. At 14 yrs. I was overwhelmed by the train itself , and what it contained. Through the years I have wondered what became of the signatures of the freedom scrolls every visitor signed. Does anyone know ???
Respectfully, Cannonball ( another Jim)
They had Half Dollars & Dollar coins, too.
I was fortunate enough to be in Portland when 4449 was rehabbed. Saw her and the SP&S (700?) in Oaks Park. Since I knew a couple of the volenteers I was able to spent a night or 2 working on 4449 chipping rust and climbing inside the smoke box. Shot her taking a spin on the turn table when the rebuild was done, then chased her up the Columbia to Wishram on the break in run. My shot of 4449 and the train reflected on the river is framed an hanging in my living room.