NCE V Digitrax or Digitrax V NCE is there a history to this?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

OK, first off I admit I am an idiot for even asking the question. My intent is not to create a flame session, just to try and understand the historical basis for this, if indeed any exists.

I am really curious about the apparent animosity / rivalry between user of these 2 fine systems. When ever a thread is started about Digitrax is does not take long for the NCE fans to weigh in with the usual list of perceived Digitrax shortcomings and frankly the Digitrax gang is more than happy to weigh into an NCE thread with assorted opinions. So often utter minutiae becomes the spark point for less than cordial inference and discussion. Neither camp is guiltless.

Are the principals of NCE and Digitrax openly hostile to each other?

Both companies seem to be doing rather well. Both seem to be offering products and services that are well received and accepted by the respective users. Both offer innovations and features that appeal to different folks.

How long has this been going on?

Why do we seem to care so passionately about this?

Why does anyone care what Joe Blow in Ohio selects as his DCC system of choice?

Is it possible to discuss this apparent rivalry in a cordial way?

2

Yes! Now shut up!!! [:o)]

Tom

(P.S. Seriously, I comment later, Simon.)

3

Whoever buys what, defends their choice to the death. It is better to be right than accurate.

Heck their both good companies. And there are other good companies. Which is “better” depends on your criteria, but neither one is a bad choice.

4

Typical, the poster child for fair and balanced debate in DCC, the man that once took a barb for “being too nice to Digitrax” responds like this!!! [;)]

I look forward to your real thoughts Tom.

5

I’ve used all the big 4 systems extensively and I have personally owned 3 of the 4 systems (Lenz, EasyDCC, and NCE).

In terms of its networking features and under-the hood design, Digitrax is one of the most feature rich with its LocoNet, although the popular European system Zimo may be able to claim its under-the-hood design is superior – but currently Zimo will cost you about double what any other DCC systems from the big 4 cost you. Rumor has it, however, that Zimo is introducing a starter system soon with a much lower price point.

NCE’s network features are less robust than Digitrax’s, but NCE specializes in making its user interface as friendly as possible. As a result, NCE’s loco consisting options from the handheld, for instance, are rich and easy to set up. While Digitrax can handle either command station or decoder-based consists, Digitrax doesn’t let you mix and match them without the need for you to develop a fairly good understanding of all the ins and outs of CV19 consisting from a technical level.

In short, Digitrax is powerful if you want to really go to town with DCC devices everywhere, but has a somewhat geeky interface if you want to get fancy. NCE is less powerful in what it will let you do with DCC devices all over the layout, but it’s user interface is generally more obvious and robust than Digitrax’s.

Both are well built systems and serve their users well. Digitrax has the advantage that they were first to market and their marketing ability is better than NCE’s, so their user base is probably twice the size of NCE’s. NCE also had some serious wireless issues until rev 2 of their wireless was released a couple of years ago. Many modelers find Digitrax’s requirement to plug in to acquire a loco somewhat annoying, while NCE allows a fully wireless solution with no need to plug in to address anything.

Both have their strengths and weaknesses. For someone who simply wants to run trains and never wants to concern themselves

6

In all fairness, they both have great products. It comes down to personal taste, IMHO, as to which system you like. I am FAR from an expert, but both have a myriad of options, are easy too use and are upgradeable. Too me, how the throttle feels in your hand is important as well; I would recommend, if you are looking to buy, to go put the throttles of each system in your hand and see how you like it… this is what you will spend the MOST time “interfacing” with, and most people skip this step (hard to do from an online retailer!).

Brian

7

What about Lenz ??? I really believe their products are often overlooked here in the US ( and Canada ). They have been at the fore-front in design and technology for years, even having a key role in sharing their technology to develop the NMRA DCC system standards. They have one of the best warrantees of all the manufacturers and a virtually bullet-proof system. Why the apparent lack of users ???

Mark.

8

If you want an awesome, no holds barred system, take a look at Zimo… but like Cartier’s, if you have to ask the price, you don’t belong in the store [:P]

Brian

9

I really don’t want to get into a feature-by-feature which system is better discussion here as that will inevitably turn into a flame out. It has all been said many times before. I already have DCC so am not in the market.

What I was trying to explore is if there is any basis for the apparent hostility and sniping that always seems to come up in discussion of DCC regarding these two companies. Is it just simply “my toy is better than yours” type discussion or is there a deeper basis for this, such as genuine animosity between the companies themselves?

I did not mention Lenz, Zimo or any of the other myriad of DCC companies as it is much rarer to see them involved in the clashes.

Please go and read the original post I think it is clear what I am asking?

10

I would be inclined to belive it’s along the same lines as the age old GM / Ford / Chrysler debate. You’re going to have diehard devotees of each of them, and each one will claim theirs is better along with a multitude of reasons why.

Mark.

11

Your mother wears army shoes.

12

I believe the animosity comes from the idea that Digitrax and NCE have been almost polar opposites when it comes to DCC design, and therefore there is some friction.

For example, NCE for the longest time offered only a “full boat” system, while Digitrax has normally offered a three-tiered system of starter sets (beginner, advanced, and expert, if you will).

NCE systems routinely get software upgrades but few new products, while Digitrax hardly ever gets a software upgrade but routinely offers new products.

Back in the day, NCE was the “user friendly” choice but more expensive, while Digitrax was the “economic” choice (the Chief was always about $50 cheaper than NCE…and the older, more basic sets were cheaper yet), but had probably some of the worst throttles for “user friendliness” (the DT100 and UT1).

Digitrax has always been on the leading edge of DCC development in most things (first DCC with IR & radio throttles, first with block detection, first with signalling, first with F12 support, first with bi-directional decoder system, first with a “big knob” throttle, etc.) but has lagged behind in reliablity and has bugs that still aren’t solved. NCE has proceeded at a much more sedate pace of developement, but their products have been more bullet proof.

I won’t deny there’s a little bit of brand loyalty at work here. But those that buy NCE are doing so for different reasons than with Digitrax, and vice versa. These differences lead to the friction that is mentioned above.

In my experience, NCE users are more agressive with expressing anti-Digitrax sentiments than the other way around, but I liken that to the Mac vs. PC debate. The less popular brand name users always seem to take it out on more popular leading brand name. Take a look at a MacAddict magazine, and it will be full of anti-Bill Gates cartoons and comparisons with PC’s. Look inside PC Magazine, and if t

13

Paul,

What kind of unreliability and bugs have you encountered with Digitrax? I am asking becasue I am going down to buy the Super Empire Builder this month while it is on sale.

Yours in Model Railroading,

14

And whenever the battle is between one system (DCC, computer, thermostat, box of crackers, etc) that pushes ease of use vs. another who pushes capability, the loyalists are often polar opposites. Somewhere in this tripe I am posting is probably a left brain/right brain thing for somebody to get a government grant to study!

I use Digitrax, but I hope everybody does the same thing I do…evaluate needs, what they want to do, read and research, discuss, read and research some more, eventually make a decision and move forward. The reasons I chose Digitrax may not help Joe, and the reasons he settles on his choices may not mean much to me. It is hard to make a mistake with any of the major systems on the market, unless you base your decision on a head count of the post “Which DCC system should I buy?”

In summation…Less Filling!

15

Simon, first off, you’re NOT an idoit. Even though you have your opinions and preferences, you’re probably one of the most well-balanced and outspoken “discussionist” here on the forum. I appreciate your boldness to even ask the question.

Sad, but true. I really don’t know the answer either. Simon, I do think you hit the nail on the head when you used the phrase “less than cordial”. Although this seems to be magnified more whenever we discuss/compare the systems of these two fine DCC companies, it’s not an unfamiliar guest on other topics, as well. (Just look at the recent DC thead.)

Discussion is great and can actually be quite constructive and helpful when done without a condescending or superior attitude. Once that enters the picture, it’s not long before the spark becomes a flame, then the MR “Fire department” must be called in in order to “hose the forum down”.

I don’t think they have to be. I’ll be the first to admit the Digitrax does some really nice and smart things with their DCC system. (A couple that I’m still waiting for them to relea

16

Having made some posts about NCE, but never having used Digitrax, I can only assume from what I read that Digitrax is also a good system.

All my posts have been either:

Explaining how to do something (like consisting) with the NCE system for someone having trouble with it, or wondering about how it’s done, or,

Responding to a post claiming Digitrax is “better” or “the best” system, or correcting a Digitrax user’s misconception of NCE. I try to point out that they both have their good features but also drawbacks. I also have said many times that usually the most important thing is which one “feels right” to a particular user, and not to spend the money for either system without talking to users of both, and if at all possible getting a hands-on demo of both.

As far as I know, nobody has taken any of my posts as hostile. I hope not.

17

That’s pretty funny, Paul, I always thought it was the opposite. You know, the “new” NCE guy says “look what my system can do!” and the “old” Digitrax guy feels like his masculinity is being threatened (heaven forbid if a system other than the one he bought might be better!), so he gets really defensive and tries to gut the NCE guy, whe in turn gets very defensive, and so the discussion quickly ratchets up to flame wars!

The heck of it is, the two systems take different roads to get to the same place, and depending on the purchaser’s mindset, one or the other system is better suited to that person’s desired approach. And when they buy the WRONG system for their own personal mindset the defensiveness goes up even further, as they try to convince themselves as well as others that they bought the right system, while they have these niggling doubts in the back of their minds.

I chose my system (NCE) because I like the interface better than Digitrax, and I have a specific dislike of proprietary networking on a system I’m building (probably comes from having owned a Betamax VCR at one time). A third, but much less important, reason is that NCE doesn’t shove their logo in your face on every connection panel you buy and install on your fascia (OK, that one was a loaded statement. Don’t everybody get TOO upset! I’m just good-naturedly twisting some tails here! [:)]).

18

Isn’t this similar to the “Less filling” “Tastes Great” debate ?

19

Or like Apple and PC??? Hehhehe. Let’s keep it civil guys.

Brian

P.S. Red Green for PRESIDENT!!!

20

“To thine own self be true.”

-Bill S., I think.

We makes our choices, and we uses what we get. We buy-in in more ways than just opening our wallets. When someone else touts their own brand choices, we feel we have to justify what we have done, but doing it in our own heads doesn’t seem to cut it. So we evoke the justification, and then an argument ensues because specifics seem to rear their ugly heads.

I am of the conviction that if I had chosen NCE instead of Digtraxx, I would be just as happy a camper, all things being equal, and would happily defend my choice.

Go, NCE!