I was wondering if someone could help me learn the terms for the different wheel arrangements of engines. I understand that the Mikado is an engine with a 2-8-2 wheel arrangement, but what do you call the others, such as an engine with six driver wheels, or just four?
I am really just getting into trains again, for real this time and these are things I never learned when I was a kid. [:)]
Hi, You need to look up the Whyte Classification System. You can find it through Google or any search engine. Another good resource is www.steamlocomotive.com which lists the COMMON names for different wheel arrangements. Some railroads had different names for certain types of locomotives, usually based on geographic locale or “political” reasons.(i.e. a 4-8-4 on the New York Central System was a “Niagara” (common name for a 4-8-4 was “Northern”) As for “political”,one would be hard pressed to find a railroad south of the Mason-Dixon line that would call any locomotive a “Northern”)
That was very helpful. I guess I just didn’t know where to look. Fascinating about the Northern and Niagara thing.
Greenbrier was the term on the C&O and Pocono on Delaware Lackawanna and Western
Texas types were called Selkirks on the Candian Pacific
But Hudsons were called Hudsons on the Candian Pacific, but Baltics on the Milwaukee.
While there are many ‘common’ names for the various wheel arrangements, ranging from the supremely mundane (8-wheeler, more commonly ‘American,’ 4-4-0; 10-wheeler, which was widely accepted for the 4-6-0; 12-wheeler for the 4-8-0…) to the fanciful (Jubilee…) the nomenclature applied to specific examples of the breed by their home roads were frequently at variance with the common. Many railroads simply used a class designation, either letter or number. If you didn’t happen to know that a 2900 was Santa-Fe-speak for a very heavy 4-8-4 the referent would be meaningless. Also, since different railroads used the same letter for different wheel arrangements…
Say ‘J’ to a dozen assorted railfans. Not more than two will mention the NYC, where J was the basic class designator for the Hudson. Most will immediately fixate on what was arguably the best 4-8-4. N&W had just over a dozen Js. NYC had Hudsons by the hundreds…
Chuck
The reason for that is simply that 610, an N&W J 4-8-4, still exists at the museum in Roanoke, because the N&W had a heart and a respect for history. The NYC destroyed all its Hudsons to get the cash for the scrap metal, so today’s younger fans can see and touch a N&W J but see a Central J only in pictures. Remember that 610 pulled railfan specials long after steam was gone from both NYC and N&W regular operations.
The only surviving N&W Class J is 611, not 610. No. 610 was the J that was tested on PRR in 1944-45.
Other Class J’s: 2-8-2/2-8-4 on C&NW, 2-10-4 on PRR.
That’s really sad that NYC did that. Luckily for me, I live near Kennesaw, GA. - home of the civil war engine; The General and a little further south, Grant’s Park/Atlanta Zoo where its opponent The Texan resides. There’s nothing like seeing a real civil war era locomotive, even if it isn’t in use anymore. However, I did get to see the Chattanooga Choo Choo in operation.
I actually still have my HO scale General engine I got for Christmas at the age of six (29 years ago) and it still runs. Never could find an HO scale Texan.
Since you’re in Georgia I should let you know that 'round these parts we refer to the 4-8-4’s as either “Big Apples” or more commonly “Dixies.”
I’ve also heard them called “Westerns,” “Greenbriers,” and “Wyomings,” in other parts.
Sorry about the 611-610 confusion, and yes I am certainly a Pennsy fan as well as one of the N&W. In “The Old Country” (Great Britain, our former occupying power), a Pacific was created from scratch to relive the past. If this is ever done in the USA, I predict it will be a New York Central J3A Hudson.
Interesting. I was wondering about that. So is “Mikado” a reference to certain 8 drive wheel arrangements or all 8 wheel driver arrangements?
Mikado, is a common term for the 2-8-2 wheel arrangement, it was derived from the first orders of this type being for the Japan National Railway, IIRC.
Other x-8-x types include:
0-8-0 8 wheeled switcher
2-8-0 Consolidation
2-8-2 Mikado
2-8-4 Berkshire
4-8-0 not a common type, but I know that at least the N&W had them, IIRC refered to as 12 wheelers
4-8-2 Usually termed “Mountain” but called “Mohawk” on the NYC, probably other names as well
4-8-4 Generally “Northern” but as noted in above posts, also known by many other terms.
Doug
The term “Mikado” is in reference to the 2-8-2 wheel arrangement only.
Do beg pardon, but the first 2-8-2 locomotives were ordered by (and delivered to) the Imperial Government Railways. JNR was a post-WWII renaming.
‘Mikado’ was applied by some unknown Baldwin employee, probably influenced by the Gilbert and Sullivan operetta of the same name. It was certainly never used in Japan, where locomotives were (and are) identified by class. I can’t recall what numeric class the original 2-8-2s were given. Classes that existed after WWII were identified as D50, D51 and D52 - the D50 class having been redesignated from numeric class 9900 when the numeric class system was abandoned.
Chuck
It’s important to emphasize that the Whyte system is generally accepted by everyone (except the French and a few places where I believe they count axles…2-3-1 instead of 4-6-2) whereas the nicknames applied to certain wheel arrangements were just that - unofficial nicknames.
The railroad who introduced a new wheel arrangement had first shot at giving it a nickname, which often became widely accepted - like Northern Pacific naming the 2-8-8-4 “Yellowstones” and 4-8-4 “Northerns” after an area they served (Yellowstone Natl Park) and themselves (Northern Pacific). Sometimes the name just sort of developed…supposedly the first 4-6-2 passenger engines went to Missouri Pacific, and were called “Pacifics” because of that. “Big Boy” was a generic term for a large engine (in the 1930 film “Danger Lights” an railroader refers to a Milwaukee 2-8-2 as a “big boy”) until some worker wrote the name on the front of one of UP’s new 4-8-8-4’s they were building.
But if a railroad chose to use nicknames in their advertising or internal use (although working railroaders generally used the class which was indicated by a letter - and was different from railroad to railroad - or more commonly, by the number series, like a “forty four hundred” for their say 4-8-2’s that were numbered starting with 4400), they could do what they wanted. If New York Central wants to name their engines after rivers in their area (Niagara, Mohawk, Hudson) nobody could stop them.
The Yellowstones were named since they were intended for use on the NP in Montana and North Dakota. The line is located along the Yellowstone river between Glendive and Livingston Montana.
P.S. The Milwaukee also followed the Yellowstone river between Terry and Forsythe.
“Dixie” was the name given by the NC&StL to their 4-8-4’s. They were also called “Yellow Jackets” or “Stripes,” depending upon the width of the metal on the runing board.
Soon after 12/7/41, the Central of Georgia began calling its Mikados “MacArthurs.” This change did not last.
The UP also attempted to rename the 2-8-2 as “MacArthur,” even though the general had never had any known connection with railroading. Since most people had long since shortened “Mikado” to “Mike,” the effort was regarded as useless propagandizing (For which we were castigating Herr Goebbels at the time.)
Chuck
The last remaining Yellow jacket or Stripe. You can see the difference in the yellow band along the side of the engine.
You can visit this engine in the park today. Sadly, time & neglect would prevent getting the engine back into operation. It’s mostly a home for invading birds & other creatures.